* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [00:00:05] WELCOME EVERYBODY TO THE UH, APRIL 2ND, 2024 MEETING OF THE RICHARDSON CITY PLAN COMMISSION. PLAN COMMISSION CONSISTS OF RICHARDSON RESIDENTS APPOINTED BY THE CITY COUNCIL. THERE ARE SEVEN REGULAR MEMBERS AND TWO ALTERNATES ON THE COMMISSION. ONLY SEVEN MEMBERS WILL VOTE ON AN ISSUE, ALTHOUGH ALL MEMBERS WILL PARTICIPATE IN DISCUSSIONS AND DELIBERATIONS. IN THE CASE OF THE ABSENCE OF A REGULAR MEMBER, A DESIGNATED ALTERNATE WILL VOTE ON THE ISSUE. UH, TONIGHT WE HAVE SIX COMMISSIONERS IN ATTENDANCE, SO EVERYBODY WILL BE VOTING. UH, THIS MEETING IS A BUSINESS MEETING AND WILL BE CONDUCTED AS SUCH IN THAT REGARD. AS A COURTESY TO THOSE IN ATTENDANCE, WE REQUEST THAT ALL DEVICES THAT EMIT SOUND BE TURNED OFF OR ADJUSTED. SO AS NOT TO INTERRUPT THE MEETING, OUR PROCEEDINGS ARE RECORDED. SO PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD. WHEN ADDRESSING THE COMMISSION ON TONIGHT'S AGENDA, WE DO HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING. UH, EACH PUBLIC HEARING IS PROCEEDED BY A STAFF INTRODUCTION OF THE REQUEST. THE APPLICANT IS THEN PERMITTED 15 MINUTES TO MAKE THEIR PRESENTATION TO THE COMMISSION. THEY MAY RESERVE ANY PORTION OF THIS TIME FOR A FINAL REBUTTAL. TIME SPENT AND ANSWERING QUESTIONS ASKED BY THE COMMISSION IS NOT COUNTED AGAINST THE APPLICANT. THOSE WISHING TO SPEAK IN FAVOR OR OPPOSITION TO THE REQUEST WILL ALSO BE GIVEN THREE MINUTES EACH TO ADDRESS THE COMMISSION. IF THERE ARE ORGANIZED GROUPS IN ATTENDANCE, WE SUGGEST THAT YOU SELECT REPRESENTATIVES TO PRESENT YOUR OBJECTIONS. THE COMMISSION IS INTERESTED IN GATHERING NEW AND RELEVANT INFORMATION. WE ARE NOT INTERESTED IN REPETITION. PLEASE ADDRESS ALL COMMENTS TO THE COMMISSION, NOT TO MEMBERS OF THE AUDIENCE. AFTER A BRIEF REBUTTAL BY THE APPLICANT, THE HEARING WILL BE CLOSED AND NO FURTHER TESTIMONY WILL BE PERMITTED. OKAY. TO START WITH OUR [1. Approval of minutes of the regular business meeting of March 19, 2024. ] AGENDA, UH, ITEM NUMBER ONE IS APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES OF THE REGULAR BUSINESS MEETING OF MARCH 19TH, 2024. UH, WE HAD ONE CORRECTION IN THERE, UH, WHICH HAS BEEN MADE. UM, ANY OTHERS? IF NOT, I MOVE FOR APPROVAL AS AMENDED. MR. CONSTANTINO, I SECOND APPROVAL, A MOTION TO APPROVE AND A SECOND. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR, RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND. THAT PASSES UNANIMOUSLY. ITEM NUMBER [2. ZF 24-01 Lockwood Special Permit and Special Development Plan: Consider and act on a request for approval of a Special Permit and Special Development Plan for a winery/distillery on a 1.5-acre lot currently zoned Main Street/Central Expressway PD Planned Development (Railside Sub-District) within an existing 19,602 squarefoot building located at 816 S. Sherman Street. Property Owner: Howard L. Nycum, HLN Enterprises, Inc. Staff: Derica Peters. ] TWO IS OUR PUBLIC HEARING. THIS IS ZONING FILE 24 DASH OH ONE. IT'S A LOCKWOOD SPECIAL PERMIT AND SPECIAL DEVELOPMENT PLAN. AND MS. PETERS, THANK YOU CHAIRMAN. ZONING FILE 24 0 1 IS FOR PROPERTY LOCATED AT EIGHT 16 SOUTH SHERMAN STREET. THE PROPERTY IS ZONED AS PART OF THE MAIN STREET CENTRAL EXPRESSWAY PLAN DEVELOPMENT AND IS IN THE RAILSIDE SUBDISTRICT. UH, THE PROPERTIES TO THE NORTHEAST AND WEST HAVE BEEN DEVELOPED WITH COMMERCIAL AND INDUSTRIAL PROPERTIES, AND THE PROPERTY TO THE SOUTH HAS BEEN RECENTLY REDEVELOPED WITH A RESTAURANT AND SMOKING ESTABLISHMENT AND AN OFFICE BUILDING. THESE ARE THE SITE PHOTOS OF THE SITE. TODAY, YOU SEE THE SITE WAS DEVELOPED WITH A 19,600 SQUARE FOOT SINGLE STORY BUILDING. IT'S 20 FEET TALL TO THE RIDGE OF THE ROOF. IT'S BEEN CONSTRUCTED OF CMU AND MASONRY MATERIALS. THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A SPECIAL PERMIT FOR A WINERY DISTILLERY, WHICH IS REQUIRED, UH, WITHIN THIS SUB-DISTRICT. A WINERY DISTILLERY CAN BE DEFINED AS ONE OF FIVE THINGS, AND ACCORDING TO THE PD DEFINITIONS, UH, THE APPLICANT, LOCKWOOD DISTILLING COMPANY, HAS PROPOSED TO, UH, OCCUPY AND REPURPOSE THIS BUILDING TO, UH, EXPAND THEIR OPERATIONS WHERE THEY WILL BE, UH, BLENDING, MIXING ALCOHOLS HERE AND CR UH, PRODUCING AND, UM, UH, PACKAGING FOR DISTRIBUTION. THE CONCEPT PLAN WAS PROVIDED BY THE APPLICANT WHERE THEY'RE SHOWING A FEW MODIFICATIONS TO THE SITE THAT INCLUDES AN OVERHEAD DOOR ON THE EAST FACADE, UH, RECONSTRUCTION TO THE FIRE LANE, WHICH WILL ALSO PROBABLY INVOLVE THE RECONSTRUCTION OF THIS DRIVEWAY ON SOUTH SHERMAN STREET. THEY'LL ALSO BE ADDING LANDSCAPING TO THE NORTH OF THAT NEW FIRE LANE AND TO THE EAST OF THE BUILDING. UM, WHERE THE FIRE LANE MEETS THE ALLEY. THE APPLICANT HAS PROVIDED THESE ELEVATIONS WHERE THEY SHOW ON THE EAST ELEVATION THE PROPOSED NEW OVERHEAD DOCK DOOR. THESE ELEVATIONS ARE THE NORTH AND SOUTH ELEVATIONS, AND THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A SPECIAL DEVELOPMENT PLAN, UH, WHICH ALLOWS THEM TO REQUEST EXCEPTIONS TO THIS DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS OF THE RAILSIDE SUBDISTRICT. UM, SO AS I MENTIONED, THE APPLICANT IS NOT MAKING ANY OTHER MODIFICATIONS OTHER THAN OTHER THAN THE OVERHEAD DOCK DOOR. UM, AND SOME OTHER THINGS LIKE THE FIRE LANE, SOME ADDITIONAL LANDSCAPING, THERE MAY [00:05:01] BE AN ADDITION OF A DUMPSTER IN THE REAR, AND THEY WILL BE REMOVING THE POLE FENCE ALONG THE PROPERTY LINE. UH, AS FAR AS THE SPECIAL DEVELOPMENT PLAN REQUEST GOES, STAFF HAS IDENTIFIED 14 AREAS WHERE THEY DO NOT MEET THE CODE. TODAY'S STANDARDS, THESE ARE PRIMARILY, PRIMARILY RELATED TO THE EXISTING CONDITIONS RELATED TO THE FORM AND AESTHETICS OF THE EXISTING BUILDING, UH, RELATED TO THIS LANDSCAPING ON SITE AND RELATED TO THE REQUIRED AMENITY ZONE ALONG THE STREET SCAPE ALONG SOUTH SHERMAN STREET. SO THESE EXCEPTIONS IN THE SPECIAL PERMIT WOULD ONLY APPLY TO A WINERY DISTILLERY OPERATED BY LOCKWOOD DISTILLING COMPANY AND ANY OTHER USE OR OPERATOR WOULD REQUIRE A NEW APPLICATION. AND IN SUMMARY, SHOULD THE CPC ACCEPT THE APPLICANT'S REQUEST AS PRESENTED, THE MOTION SHOULD INCLUDE THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS, WHICH, UH, AS FOUND IN EXHIBIT A AND EXHIBIT B, YOU'LL FIND THE CONCEPT PLAN AND THE ELEVATIONS PROVIDED AS PART OF THE SPECIAL DEVELOPMENT PLAN AND THE SPECIAL PERMIT CONDITION, WHICH STATES THAT THIS USE IN THIS SPECIAL PERMIT IS LIMITED TO LOCKWOOD DISTILLING COMPANY. AND THAT WAS, THAT WAS ALL I HAD FROM MY PRESENTATION, AND THE APPLICANT IS HERE TONIGHT TO INTRODUCE THEMSELVES AS WELL. AND WE HAD NO CORRESPONDENCE RELATED TO THIS REQUEST. THANK YOU. UH, THANK YOU. UM, I, I HAD A FEW. BEFORE WE GET TO THE APPLICANT, JUST A FEW MORE QUESTIONS TO STAFF. UH, OBVIOUSLY WE'VE GONE THROUGH A, UH, WORK SESSION ON THIS, BUT JUST TO MAKE SURE I'VE GOT THIS CLEAR IN MY MIND BEFORE WE HEAR FROM THE APPLICANT, UM, COUPLE THINGS ON THE, AS FAR AS THE CODE AND WHAT IT'S REQUIRES, UM, CAN YOU EXPLAIN A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE GLAZING REQUIREMENT? UH, 50% OF THE GROUND FLOOR IS SUPPOSED TO BE, UH, WINDOW AREA. IS THAT CORRECT? YES, SIR. THAT'S CORRECT. OKAY. UM, AND, AND THAT THE PURPOSE, UH, FOR NON-RESIDENTIAL BUILDINGS, SO DO YOU HAVE, DO YOU HAVE ANY CONTEXT BEHIND WHY THAT WAS IN THAT IT'S REALLY, WHEN IT'S IN A NON-RESIDENTIAL BUILDING, THAT 50% HAS TO BE WINDOWS, PARTICULARLY IF IT'S A, YOU KNOW, INDUSTRIAL USE? WELL, THAT'S THE THING IS THAT, THAT THE NEW RAILSIDE DISTRICT IS NOT AN INDUSTRIAL DISTRICT, RIGHT? SO IT TAKES ON MORE OF A COMMERCIAL. THERE ARE SOME INDUSTRIAL USES THAT WOULD BE ALLOWED SUCH AS OFFICE, I BELIEVE IT MAY ALLOW SOME WAREHOUSING. BUT AS PART OF THAT ENVISIONING FOR RAILSIDE OR THE, OR THE MAIN STREET, UH, CENTRAL EXPRESSWAY PD, UH, A LOT OF THOSE INDUSTRIAL USES WERE REMOVED AS ALLOWABLE USES. SO YOU HAVE COMMERCIAL OFFICE, RETAIL, SOME LIMITED TYPE OF WAREHOUSING AND, AND LIMITED TYPE OF MANUFACTURING IN THE FACT THAT IT, IT, IT REALLY, IT REALLY CALLS OUT MANUFACTURING AS ARTISANAL MANUFACTURING SMALL SCALE, NO GREATER THAN 20, UH, THOUSAND SQUARE FEET SIZE. SO IT, IT, IT, THE AMENDMENT OR THE REZONING OF THE PROPERTY TOTALLY CHANGED THE TYPES OF USES THAT WOULD BE ALLOWED IN THAT SUBDISTRICT. OKAY. UM, ANOTHER ONE I HAD A QUESTION ABOUT WAS THE DRIVING RATE, I GUESS HOW YOU PRONOUNCE THAT RIGHT? RADII. RADII. MM-HMM, , OKAY. UH, THE CODE REQUIRES THAT THEY HAVE A TURNING RADIUS OF 30 FEET INBOUND, 20 FEET OUTBOUND. YOU SAY THAT THE NORTH DRIVEWAY WILL MEET THAT STANDARD. IT WILL GET AFTER THE RECONSTRUCTION OF THE DRIVEWAY, IT WILL GET AS CLOSE AS POSSIBLE TO THAT. THERE'S A, UH, UTILITY POLE RIGHT AT THE EDGE OF IT, BUT THE OTHERS WILL MAINTAIN I I, AND I THINK THEY'RE LESS THAN 15 FEET OF, UH, RADIUS ON THE EXISTING, UH, UH, DRIVEWAY CURBS. OKAY. THANK YOU. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR STAFF? ALRIGHT. WELL, THIS IS OUR PUBLIC HEARING, UH, SO WE WOULD ASK THAT THE APPLICANT PLEASE COME FORWARD AND, UH, AGAIN, STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS AND, UH, I'D LIKE TO HEAR FROM YOU ABOUT YOUR REQUEST. GOOD EVENING. I'M EVAN BAT WITH LOCKWOOD DISTILLING COMPANY. UH, I'D LIKE TO THANK EVERYONE FOR [00:10:01] HAVING US. I'D LIKE TO THANK SAM AND HIS TEAM FOR HELPING US THROUGH THIS PROCESS. UH, WE APPRECIATE THE, UM, THE CHAMBER HEARING THIS, AND, UH, WE LOOK FORWARD TO THIS PROCESS. UH, ALSO WANNA INTRODUCE MY, MY TEAM. WE HAVE HERE, UH, WE'VE GOT OUR KEY PERSONNEL, UH, SEAN SAUNDERS, VP OF OPERATIONS, AS WELL AS ADAM VANDERKOLK, OUR, UH, VP OF DISTILLERY OPERATIONS. UH, SO WE'RE WELL REPRESENTED HERE. WE ALSO HAVE THE LAND, UH, THE BUILDING OWNER, UH, PRESENT AS WELL, AS WELL AS HIS, UH, AGENT WHO HELPED US WITH THE PROCESS OF, UH, OF REACHING THE TERMS OF THIS DEAL TO, UH, PROCEED. UM, SO EVERYONE HERE IN EFFORT TO SUPPORT. UM, JUST A LITTLE BACKGROUND ABOUT OUR COMPANY. FOR THOSE WHO DON'T KNOW, WE STARTED, UH, OUR FIRST LOCATION HERE IN RICHARDSON, TEXAS IN 2019. UH, WE OPENED THE DOORS IN OCTOBER, LATE OCTOBER, UH, JUST ONLY A FEW MONTHS BEFORE THE PANDEMIC HIT. SO WE, WE LEARNED VERY QUICKLY THAT, UH, THE PANDEMIC KIND OF SHAPED OUR BUSINESS. WE HAD A VISION, WE HAD A PLAN. WE, UH, LIKE MIKE TYSON SAID, EVERYONE HAS A PLAN, SO YOU GET HIT IN THE MOUTH, UH, THAT THAT HAPPENED TO US. SO, UM, AS, AS FAR AS LOOKING AT IT AS A BLESSING, WE REALLY FOUND OUR WAY AND FOUND OUR CULTURE AND FOUND OUT KIND OF THE COMPANY ETHOS OF BEING A, A TRUE COMMUNITY MEMBER. UM, YOU KNOW, IN, IN THOSE STRUGGLES OF LEARNING THAT PROCESS, WE HAD MY FAMILY CLOSE. WE OWNED THE BUSINESS TOGETHER WITH MY WIFE AND I, UH, OUR KIDS WERE OUTTA SCHOOL, OBVIOUSLY, SO THEY SPENT A LOT OF TIME IN, IN OUR BUILDING ON LOCKWOOD DRIVE. UM, WE DID OUR BEST TO ENRICH THE COMMUNITY BY, UM, DOING A HAND SANITIZER EFFORT. WE DONATED THOUSANDS OF GALLONS TO, UH, FIRST RESPONDERS, CHURCHES, CITY OFFICIALS, EVERYTHING LIKE THAT WE COULD FIND, UM, TO DO OUR PART. WE, UH, ALONG WITH THAT, WE NEVER FURLOUGHED ANYBODY. WE ACTUALLY BUILT OUR STAFF UP. UM, AROUND THAT TIME IS WHEN WE DECIDED TO GO INTO DISTRIBUTION. UH, IT WAS OUR PLAN TO WAIT THREE YEARS TO GO INTO DISTRIBUTION, AND THE NECESSITY TO, UH, TO DO THAT WAS CAUSED BY CLOSING THE RESTAURANT DOORS AND ONLY HAVING EXTERIOR FACING BUSINESS. UM, WE HAVE ALSO WORKED WITH THE CHAMBER IN, UM, SENDING THREE PEOPLE THROUGH LEADERSHIP RICHARDSON, WELL, TWO AND A HALF, I GUESS. WE'VE GOT ONE GRADUATING AT THE END OF THIS CLASS. UM, SO IN, IN THE SPIRIT OF, OF SUPPORTING EVERYTHING WE POSSIBLY CAN, THAT'S BEEN PART OF THE GOAL. WE DONATE TO HUNDREDS OF LOCAL CHARITIES, UM, IN THAT THROUGH SIMPLE DONATIONS PER MONTH IN PRODUCTS. WE ALSO DO A COCKTAIL FOR A CAUSE PROGRAM TO HIGHLIGHT DIFFERENT CHARITIES, UH, THAT WE, THAT WE PROMOTE FOR THE FULL, FULL MONTH. WE ALSO DO A COPPER CUP GOLF CHARITY TOURNAMENT WHERE THE PROCEEDS GO TO BENEFIT COMMUNITY OF NETWORK MINISTRIES. UM, WE'VE, UH, SUPPORTED, UH, LIVE MUSIC SINCE THE START OF COVID AS WELL. WE BROUGHT BACK, UM, LOCAL ARTISTS AND THAT ARE COMPENSATED AT OUR LOCATION. WE HAVE THREE DAYS A WEEK OF LIVE MUSIC, UH, TO HELP PROMOTE THAT INDUSTRY. WE ALSO ADVERTISE THE CITY OF RICHARDSON AT EVERY LOCAL, UH, OR EVERY, EVERY LABEL, UH, IN FULL DISTRIBUTION. ALSO, THROUGH OUR ADVERTISING EFFORTS, WE, WE PROMOTE WHERE WE ARE FOUNDED AND WHERE WE ARE. OUR, OUR LOCATION IS, UH, WE'VE ALSO HELPED AN EMPLOYEE, UM, BECOME A RICHARDSON FIREFIGHTER THAT WE'RE VERY PROUD OF. UH, SO THOSE ARE JUST SOME NOTES ON KIND OF OUR, OUR COMPANY ETHOS, WHERE WE'VE STARTED. AND, UM, WE HOPE TO CONTINUE THAT IN OUR NEW SPACE. UM, WE ALSO, UM, AS I MENTIONED, STARTED THIS BUSINESS. UM, MY, MY EXPERIENCE IN THE INDUSTRY HAS BEEN SINCE 2003 WHEN I STARTED. UH, I GREW UP IN THE AREA. I WENT TO PLANO SENIOR HIGH, WENT TO TEXAS A AND M, UH, EVENTUALLY WORKED MY WAY BACK HERE WITH MY WIFE AND WAS IN THE LIQUOR BUSINESS AND WINE AND SPIRITS BUSINESS, UH, UNTIL WE STARTED THIS BUSINESS. SO I'VE BEEN IN FOR OVER 20 YEARS, UM, IN THAT HISTORY, WELL DECORATED FOR BEING AN ADVOCATE OF COMPLIANCE, UM, SAFETY AND, UH, AGAIN, COMMUNITY INVOLVEMENT. SO AGAIN, WE HOPE TO CONTINUE THAT IN THIS LOCATION. UM, OUR, UH, OUR EXPANSION GOALS ARE PRETTY SIMPLE. WE'VE, UH, WE'VE RUN OUTTA SPACE. SO WE'VE BEEN LOOKING FOR AS LONG AS I CAN REMEMBER, TWO, THREE YEARS FOR A NEW LOCATION. UH, ZONING HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE RISK OF EXPANSION. DISTILLERY BUILDINGS ARE PRETTY MUCH, UH, A RARE UNICORN IN THAT WE'VE GOT SPECIFIC REQUIREMENTS WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO OPERATE. AND THEN FINDING SOME, A BUILDING IN A RURAL OR IN A METROPOLITAN AREA THAT'S BEEN ALREADY ACCOMMODATED IS VERY, VERY CHALLENGING. UH, WE'RE EXCITED ABOUT THIS LOCATION. IT, IT MEETS A LOT OF OUR NEEDS, UM, WHEREVER IT'S GONNA UPDATE TO MAKE IT MEET THE REMAINDER OF OUR NEEDS. BUT, UH, THIS WILL TAKE OUR BUSINESS INTO THE NEXT DECADE, UH, OF EXPANSION. UM, BEYOND THAT, WE ARE, WE'RE BLESSED TO HAVE THE NEED TO EXPAND. WE REALLY OWE A LOT TO, UH, THE CITY AND THE COMMUNITY FOR SUPPORTING US THROUGH THE COVID PERIOD. AND AFTER, UH, WE'VE BEEN FORTUNATE ENOUGH TO GROW THROUGHOUT THIS, THIS ENTIRE JOURNEY. AND, UM, WE'RE EXCITED TO, [00:15:01] TO OPEN THIS NEXT CHAPTER. UM, SO IN CLOSING, WE, WE APPRECIATE THE CONSIDERATION AND, UM, I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS. COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINO? YEAH, JUST A QUICK QUESTION. IS THERE, IS THERE A SCENARIO WHERE YOU WOULD, UM, DO ALL THE DISTILLING IN YOUR OTHER LOCATION AND ONLY USE THIS FOR STORAGE? WOULD THAT BE A POSSIBILITY IN YOUR MIND? UH, IT WOULDN'T BE STORAGE. SO THE, THE MANUFACTURING OF ALCOHOL IS, IS UNIQUE IN THAT WE, WE DO A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS, RIGHT? SO JUST OUR BRAND, WE CAN EXIST WITHIN OUR CURRENT WALLS. HOWEVER, UM, WE DO A LOT OF CO-PACK BUSINESS AS WELL. SO THERE'S, THERE'S BLENDING, UH, THAT TAKES PLACE. SO THE BLENDING WOULD, WOULD NEED TO TAKE PLACE IN THIS LOCATION. SO IT WOULD BE ON, BE BEYOND JUST STORAGE. COMMISSIONER ROBERTS? YES. UM, DO YOU GUYS ANTICIPATE A TASTING ROOM? WE DON'T HAVE ANY IMMEDIATE INTENTIONS FOR BEING OPEN TO THE PUBLIC AT THIS LOCATION. UH, WE'VE GOT THREE OTHER TASTING ROOMS, UH, INCLUDING THE RICHESON LOCATION, WHICH ARE OUR PUBLIC FACING, UH, OUTWARD LOOKING BUSINESSES. SO AT THIS TIME, WE DON'T HAVE ANY INTENTION OF USING THIS SPACE FOR RETAIL. ALRIGHT. THANK YOU. MM-HMM. , COMMISSIONER SUTHER, UH, ROUGHLY HOW MANY PEOPLE DO YOU ANTICIPATE HIRING INITIALLY AND THEN POSSIBLY FOR THIS OPERATION? SO WE'VE, WE'VE GOT A PRODUCTION TEAM CURRENTLY OF ABOUT, UM, 10, 10 PEOPLE. WE WOULD INITIALLY PROBABLY DOUBLE THAT. UM, AND THEN AS OUR BUSINESS GROWS, YOU KNOW, WITHIN THE SPACE INCREASE FROM THERE. SO WE'VE GOT AMBITION TO, YOU KNOW, MULTIPLY OUR BUSINESS BY TENFOLD IN THIS LOCATION. UH, I IMAGINE OUR, OUR PEOPLE WOULD SOMEWHAT FOLLOW THAT. AND WOULD THAT BE BASED ON FURTHER RETAIL OUTLETS UNDER THE LOCKWOOD DISTILLING BRAND, OR WOULD IT, WOULD IT INCLUDE, UH, SALES AT OTHER, UH, UH, BEVERAGE STORES? WHERE, WHERE'S, WHERE'S THIS PRODUCT GONNA GO? VERY GOOD QUESTION. SO OUR, OUR FOCUS, UM, FROM A GRAND GOALS AND OUR, OUR BIG PICTURE EFFORTS HERE IS ALL ABOUT NORTH TEXAS. SO WE, WE ARE IN DISTRIBUTION IN OKLAHOMA. WE'RE TRYING TO OPEN ARKANSAS AT THE MOMENT, BUT ALL OF THESE MARKETS ARE TO SUPPORT NORTH TEXAS. SO WE WANT TO BE WHERE NORTH TEXANS TRAVEL, WE WANNA BE WHERE THEY SEE US ON VACATION. UM, BUT OUR, OUR BUSINESS IS REALLY CENTERED AROUND NORTH TEXAS. SO IN THAT THE SUPPORT WE NEED NECESSARY IS IN PRODUCTION SIDE ON BOTTLING, PRODUCING ALCOHOL, BLENDING, MIXING, ALL THOSE THINGS. UH, IT'S ALSO IN A SALES FUNCTION. UM, AND IT'S ALSO WITHIN THE TASTING ROOMS. SO IT'S SOMEWHAT ALL ENCOMPASSING. UH, WE DON'T HAVE IMMEDIATE LOCATIONS IDENTIFIED FOR FURTHER TASTING ROOMS. UM, AT THE MOMENT, OUR BUSINESS IS, IS CAPPED FROM OUR PRODUCTION REQUIREMENTS. AND THAT'S WHY THIS, THIS IMMINENT MOVE FOR US IS SO IMPORTANT. SO THE IMMEDIATE, UM, JOBS WE'D OFFER WOULD BE AT THIS FACILITY, BUT IT COULD LEAD TO ADDITIONAL, UH, ABSOLUTELY TASTING ROOMS. YES, SIR. GOOD, THANK YOU. COMMISSIONER ROBERTS. THIS, SO MIGHT BE A QUESTION FOR STAFF. IF, UH, IF, UH, APPLICANT EVENTUALLY WOULD WANT TO OPEN A TASTING ROOM THERE, WOULD THEY HAVE TO COME BACK BEFORE, UH, PLAN COMMISSION? NOW I AM READING THROUGH THE DEFINITION TO MAKE SURE THAT IT, THAT THAT RETAIL SALES WOULD BE ALLOWED, UH, AND A RETAIL SALE IS ALLOWED. NOW, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE HAD ORIGINALLY TALKED ABOUT WAS A POSSIBILITY, THE POSSIBILITY OF HA OF HOLDING SPECIAL EVENTS. THAT'S ANOTHER SPECIAL PERMIT THAT WOULD BE REQUIRED. UH, BUT AS FAR AS A TASTING ROOM WHERE SMALL QUANTITIES, THE LARGE GATHERINGS ARE, UH, ARE, UH, HELD AT THE FACILITY, I BELIEVE THAT USE WOULD BE ALLOWED. UM, COULD YOU TELL ME A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT, UH, WHY YOU CHOSE THIS LOCATION? UM, YOU SAID IN YOUR OPENING REMARKS THAT YOU LOOKED FOR TWO TO THREE YEARS. UM, WAS THERE, WHAT SORT OF DIFFICULTY DID YOU RUN INTO IN FINDING A SUITABLE LOCATION? WHY DID YOU END UP ON WITH THIS BUILDING? YES, SIR. EXCELLENT QUESTION. SO WE, WE'VE LOOKED, WE LOOKED ALL OVER, YOU KNOW, THE, THE COMBINATION OF THE UNIQUENESS OF THE BUILDING, THE [00:20:01] ZONING, THE COST, ARE ALL FACTORS. SO WE LOOKED INITIALLY WHEN, WHEN IN THE SCIENCE OF MANUFACTURING ALCOHOL IN A METROPOLITAN AREA DOESN'T MAKE A LOT OF SENSE. WE DON'T NEED THE ADDRESS, WE NEED THE SPACE. SO THE SPACE IS TRADITIONALLY LESS EXPENSIVE. OUTSIDE OF RICHARDSON RICHARDSON, REAL ESTATE HAS APPRECIATED QUITE A BIT RECENTLY, A LOT WITH, YOU KNOW, SIMILAR SURROUNDING AREAS. BUT, YOU KNOW, IF WE WERE TO GO TO GARLAND, UH, OR A SIMILAR EFFORT, WE'D PROBABLY FIND A, A LESS EXPENSIVE LOCATION. HOWEVER, OUR TIES TO RICHARDSON AND THE FACT THAT THAT IS GONNA BE ON THE LABEL OF EVERY BOTTLE WE PRODUCE IS A BIG DEAL TO US. IT'S PART OF OUR, IT'S PART OF OUR JOURNEY. IT'S PART OF WHAT WE ARE, WHO WE ARE. UM, WE'VE INVESTED A LOT IN LOT IN THIS AREA, SO THAT WAS IMPORTANT TO US. SO WE ALSO EXPLORED, YOU KNOW, UM, RURAL AREAS. AND THE WAY THE WET DRY LAWS WORK IS THAT AFTER PROHIBITION, EVERYTHING WAS DRY. AND TO CHANGE THAT IS PUBLIC VOTE. SO IT'S VERY, VERY CHALLENGING. SO ANY UNINCORPORATED AREA, UNINCORPORATED AREAS LIKELY NOT BEEN VOTED TO GO WET YET. SO FINDING LOCATIONS ARE VERY CHALLENGING, EVEN IN RURAL AREAS. SO, HAVING THE HISTORY WE'VE GOT WITH THE CITY HERE, UH, WE, WE'VE THOUGHT THAT IT WOULD BE AN EASIER PROPOSITION TO REZONE SOMETHING CLOSE TO US, WHICH IS REALLY, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE OFFICIAL DISTANCE IS, BUT IT, IT'S, IF IT'S MORE THAN A MILE, IT'S TWO MILES, UH, FROM OUR EXISTING LOCATION. SO IT'S VERY CLOSE TO WHERE WE CAN SHARE RESOURCES FROM THE TASTING ROOM TO OUR PRODUCTION FACILITY. AND, UH, IT'S ALSO WITHIN THE CITY OF RICHARDSON, THAT WAS VERY IMPORTANT TO US. SO WE, WE DID SEARCH HIGH AND LOW, AND THIS HAS BEEN A GREAT SPACE. IT'S GOT A REALLY UNIQUE HISTORY TOO. IT WAS FORMERLY A, UH, THUNDERBIRD ROLLER RINK, UH, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, NEAR AND DEAR TO MY HEART. I HAD BIRTHDAY PARTIES AT THE ONE IN PLANO. UH, I THINK WE HAD THE SAME EXPERIENCE HERE WITH SOME OTHER STAFF MEMBERS. SO WE'RE, WE'RE EXCITED TO PAY, YOU KNOW, SUBTLE HOMAGE TO THAT HISTORY AS WELL. AND SOME OF THE DECOR WE CHOOSE, UM, YOU KNOW, WE'RE IN A, WE'RE IN A FUN INDUSTRY, SO WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE, WE'RE SHOWING THAT THROUGH AT CERTAIN SIGNS. UM, SO THIS, THIS BUILDING WAS A REALLY UNIQUE OPPORTUNITY FOR US THAT CHECKS A LOT OF THE BOXES THAT, THAT WE NEED FOR THAT SHAPE AND SIZE, BUT ALSO THE HISTORY. SO, UM, SO THE, THE, THE LOCATION AND PROXIMITY TO LOCKWOOD DISTILLERY WAS IMPORTANT, RIGHT? ABSOLUTELY. YEAH. UM, AND COULD YOU TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT IT? IT, UM, WHAT, WHAT EXACTLY ARE THE PLANS? UM, IT, IT WAS ASKED EARLIER IN THIS BRIEFING SESSION ABOUT, YOU KNOW, PAINTING THE BUILDING. IS THAT, ARE, IS THAT IN THE PLANS? SO IN, IN THIS PROCESS, WHICH I, I PRAY WE ONLY DO IT ONCE, UM, YOU KNOW, WE'RE, WE'RE LEARNING THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE CODE UPDATES. SO EVERY, EVERYTHING WE DO TO THIS PROPERTY COMES WITH A COST. SO AS A, AS A SMALL BUSINESS, WE'RE TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THESE COSTS AND WORK WITHIN A BUDGET OF EXPANSION, RIGHT? SO, UM, WE'RE, WE'RE AN INDEPENDENTLY OWNED BUSINESS. WE DON'T HAVE INVESTORS. UM, IT'S JUST ME AND MY WIFE. SO, UH, IN THAT REGARD, WE'RE TRYING TO UNDERSTAND OUR TOTAL EXPOSURE OF THIS EXPANSION. AND THEN ASSUMING WE CHECK ALL THOSE BOXES AND WITHIN OUR BUDGET RANGE, THEN THAT'S WHERE THE AESTHETIC PIECE WILL COME IN. SO OBVIOUSLY, IF YOU'VE EVER BEEN TO OUR EXISTING LOCATION, WE DID A COMPLETE RENOVATION OF THAT BUILDING. UM, YOU KNOW, I'M GONNA SAY WE SPARED NO EXPENSE 'CAUSE THAT'S WHAT IT FELT LIKE. BUT FROM UPDATING PLUMBING TO ELECTRIC, TO INSULATION TO FACADE EVERYTHING, UM, WE, WE UPDATED. SO THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY THE PLAN HERE, BUT WE DO WANNA MAKE IT LOOK LIKE OUR BRAND. SO WE WILL HOST MEETINGS HERE. WE WILL HOST, UM, YOU KNOW, DISTRIBUTOR, PEOPLE WILL HOST RESTAURATEURS FROM AROUND THE AREA. UH, ANYONE WHO'S, UH, A CUSTOMER FROM THE BUSINESS TO BUSINESS STANDPOINT, WE'LL HOST. SO WE WANT IT TO LOOK AS IMPRESSIVE AS POSSIBLE. UH, SO IT IS OUR, OUR OUR HOPE TO BE ABLE TO UPDATE THE FACADE AS WELL TO, UM, YOU KNOW, MATCH OUR BRAND REQUIREMENTS, WHICH WE THINK ARE OUR PREMIUM BRAND. SO THAT SOUNDS LIKE A, MAYBE SOUNDS LIKE A, HOPEFULLY I, UNTIL WE UNDERSTAND WHAT, WHAT WE'VE GOTTA INVEST IN THIS. 'CAUSE LIKE, LIKE WE SAID, IN, IN ALL THE CHANGES THAT, THAT ARE REQUIRED FOR THE CODE, YOU KNOW, ADDING LANDSCAPE, REROUTING THE FIRE TRUCKS, UM, YOU KNOW, REDOING THE PARKING LOT, THIS BUS, THIS BUILDING NEEDS, UH, FIRE SPRINKLERS, UM, YOU KNOW, INSULATION ON AND ON AND ON. SO THERE'S, THERE'S A LOT THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE HERE. SO UNTIL WE KNOW WHAT WE'RE ALLOWED TO DO, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT WE'RE ABLE TO DO. ALRIGHT. JUST A QUESTION FOR STAFF THEN. IS, UH, EXHIBIT B [00:25:01] ELEVATIONS, THAT'S NOT A CONDITION OF, UM, THE APPROVAL OR REQUEST THAT IT MEET OR CONFORM WITH THE ELEVATIONS PRESENTED IN EXHIBIT B? WHICH STATE THAT IT'S GONNA BE PAINTED WHITE AND THE ROOF IS SILVER? YES, THE ELEVATIONS WILL BE INCLUDED. UM, SO THEY HAVE TO MEET WHAT'S SHOWN ON THE ELEVATIONS, WHICH IS JUST TO BE PAINTED OFF WHITE. UM, AND THE APPLICANT CAN SPEAK TO THAT, WHETHER THEY'RE GONNA REPAINT THAT OR LEAVE IT AS IS. YEAH, I, I, I'M JUST, I'M, I'M REALLY JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND IF THE, I, I TOOK, I, I TOOK IT FROM LOOKING AT THE PACKAGE THAT THAT WAS GONNA BE NEW PAINT. 'CAUSE IT DIDN'T APPEAR THAT THE ROOF WAS SILVER TODAY, BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU MAY BE SAYING THAT IT'S, THAT'S UNDECIDED SO THAT THE EXISTING COLORS MAY REMAIN AND PERHAPS YOU CAN PULL UP THE PHOTOGRAPHS OF YEAH, I THINK THE ELEVATIONS CAPTURED A LOT OF THE EXISTING CONDITIONS FOR THE BUILDING. I DUNNO WHY IT CALLS OUT A, A SILVER ROOF. SO, YEAH. YEAH. SO EXHIBIT B IS THE EXHIBIT THAT THE APPLICANT'S ARCHITECT PUT TOGETHER. UH, SO WE REALLY HAD NO INPUT INTO IT OTHER THAN TO TAKE THE INFORMATION THAT THE ARCHITECT PROVIDED. UH, WE CAN MODIFY THAT CONDITION OR WE CAN MODIFY THE LANGUAGE ON THAT CONCEPT PLAN THAT THAT CALLS OUT, UH, THE PAINTING OF THESE, OF THESE MATERIALS IN CERTAIN COLORS. TYPICALLY WHAT YOU GET IS A, IS A, IS AN EXHIBIT SHOWING HOW THAT BUILDING INTENDS TO BE EITHER REFURBISH, REFURBISHED, PAINTED, UH, IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, I THINK THAT'S WHAT THIS ELEVATION WAS SHOWING, BUT IT WASN'T REALLY THE INTENT OF THE APPLICANT TO DO SO AT THIS TIME. BUT IF WE KEEP , YEAH, I, I MEAN, I'M JUST, YOU KNOW, THE, THE, THE STAFF, YOU KNOW, RECOMMENDATION, NOT NECESSARILY RECOMMENDATION, BUT, UM, PROPOSED MOTION WAS TO INCLUDE, UM, EXHIBIT B AND C, WHICH IS ELEVATIONS CORRECT. AS PART OF THE CONDITION. THAT'S ALL I WAS TRYING TO, AND WHEN I READ THE ELEVATIONS, IT SAYS IT'S GONNA BE PAINTED WHITE AND GRAY ROOF. SO THAT'S ALL I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND IS, IS THAT IN FACT YOUR INTENT HERE AND IT JUST DOESN'T SOUND LIKE YOU'VE MADE THAT DECISION YET. SO WE, WE WOULD LOVE TO PAINT THE FRONT OF THE BUILDING. I DON'T, I DON'T THINK WE'VE GOT AN INTEREST IN PAINTING THE ROOF, BUT WE, WE WOULD VERY MUCH LIKE TO MAKE THE WALK UP THE SAME EXPERIENCE OF WALKING UP INTO ONE OF OUR TASTING ROOMS. YEAH. OKAY. MAYBE YOU COULD EXPLAIN, UH, WHAT ELSE YOU'RE GONNA DO INSIDE THE BUILDING. YOU MENTIONED IT MAY NEED A, OR IT WILL NEED TO BE SPRINKLERED. YES, SIR. UM, HOW ABOUT YOUR BOTTLING EQUIPMENT AND ANYTHING ELSE THAT YOU'RE DOING INSIDE THE BUILDING? ABSOLUTELY. SO I, I CAN SPEAK GENERALLY THAT, UM, AS PART OF THIS PROCESS, WE WERE, WE'RE TOLD THAT WE DIDN'T HAVE TO HAVE A FORMAL FLOOR PLAN, BUT I CAN EASILY WALK YOU THROUGH WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT. SO, UM, ONE, ONE THING WE ARE MISSING IN OUR TASTING ROOMS IS THAT WE DON'T HAVE OFFICE SPACE. UH, WE ALSO DON'T HAVE A CONFERENCE ROOM FORMALLY, SO WE'RE, WE'RE COMPETING WITH RESTAURANT SPACE FOR, FOR THESE MEETING AREAS. AND AS OUR BUSINESS GROWS, WE'RE TAKING MORE MEETINGS, UM, LIKE I MENTIONED, WE'RE, WE'RE OFFERING MEETING LOCATIONS FOR OUR CUSTOMERS AS WELL AS OUR, OUR WHOLESALER PARTNERS. SO IN OUR ENCLOSED AIR CONDITIONED SPACE IN THIS, WHICH WOULD BE A A, A FRACTION OF THIS BUILDING WOULD PROBABLY BE A, A THIRD OF IT, I'D GUESS, UM, LOOSELY THAT WOULD BE OFFICE SPACE, MEETING AREAS, UM, YOU KNOW, PRESENTABLE SPACE TO SHOW THE BRAND IN A, IN A BAR TYPE ENVIRONMENT. UM, INSIDE THE WAREHOUSE PRODUCTION FACILITY, WE, WE INTEND TO HAVE THREE FILLING LINES. SO WE'VE GOT ONE EXISTING, CURRENTLY WE HAVE ONE WE'VE BOUGHT AT AUCTION THAT IS IN STORAGE, AND THEN WE'RE GONNA PURCHASE ANOTHER ONE. AND FOR SMALLER SIZES, THE SMALL AIRPLANE BOTTLES, [00:30:01] WE'LL ALSO STORE BARRELS ON SITE. SO WE'VE GOT, UM, AN INVENTORY BUILT UP OF, OF, OF WHISKEY BARRELS THAT WE'LL STORE. WE ALSO HAVE A LOT OF DRY GOODS, UH, THROUGH THE PANDEMIC AND THE, THE SHORTAGE OF PAPER MATERIALS AND GLASS MATERIALS WE'VE HAD TO BUY IN BULK TO BE ABLE TO STORE THAT. SO WE USE TWO DIFFERENT WAREHOUSES CURRENTLY. ONE IN SAN ANTONIO, ONE IN DALLAS THAT HOUSES OOF, I DON'T KNOW, HUNDREDS OF PALLETS OF, OF GLASS AND PACKAGING MATERIALS. SO THAT'S AN EXPENSE AS WELL THAT WE'D WANT TO TAKE INSIDE WITH THE NEW SPACE. UM, WE ALSO HAVE, UM, STORAGE FOR, FOR LIQUID. SO WE'VE GOT, UM, TANKS AND BLENDING EQUIPMENT TO, UH, TO HOUSE OUR, OUR PRODUCTION FACILITY. SO WE'RE, WE'RE OPERATING CURRENTLY IN, I'D SAY 3,700 FEET IN OUR PRODUCTION SPACE. AND THIS IS 19,600. SO IT, IT REALLY GIVES US SOME RUNWAY. THANK YOU. I DON'T KNOW WHO WAS FIRST JOE WAS, YEAH, GO AHEAD. JUST A QUICK QUESTION HERE. SO YOU, YOU'VE OBVIOUSLY SEEN THE SUGGESTION BY STAFF. UM, IS YOUR MAIN OBJECTION TO THIS IS JUST COST OR MAYBE THE UNKNOWN COST OF THE PROJECT ENTIRELY, OR THE LANDLORD'S WILLINGNESS TO, YOU KNOW, CHIP IN OR, OR WHATEVER IT IS? O OBJECTION TO WHICH PART, I'M SORRY. OH, TO THEIR SUGGESTIONS. YOU DON'T THINK IT'S INCOMPATIBLE WITH THE USE? I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY A A WALKUP LIKE THIS WOULD CERTAINLY BE A LITTLE BIT, UH, PRETTIER FOR A WHOLESALER THAN A WALK UP LIKE THAT, YOU KNOW, A B2B CLIENT. YEAH, I THINK, I THINK WOULD, WOULD, THIS WOULD BE A LITTLE BIT MORE YES, SIR. I THINK, I THINK THE, THE, WHAT WE SAW IN THIS IS THE, IT'S A TRADE OFF FOR SOME THINGS WE CAN'T CONTROL. SO AT THE FRONT OF THE PROPERTY, YOU KNOW, CHANGING THE LINE, ADDING A SIDEWALK, LIKE A LOT OF THIS IS OFF, OFF THE PROPERTY. SO IT'S TOUGH FOR US TO, TO SPEAK TO THAT. UM, AND, AND NO DOUBT, I THINK THERE'S AN IMPROVEMENT THERE. BUT YOU'RE, YOU'RE RIGHT, LIKE THE, THE COST WHEN WHEN WE FOUND THIS BUILDING, YOU KNOW, THE PICTURES, THE PICTURES DO IT JUSTICE, RIGHT? SO, UM, WE'RE, WE'RE GONNA, WE'RE GONNA LEAVE IT BETTER THAN WE FOUND IT FOR SURE. SO WHERE, WHERE'S THE END OF THAT, RIGHT? SO AS WE'RE A SELF-FUNDED BUSINESS, YOU KNOW, TO JUSTIFY COSTS ON ADDING LANDSCAPE AND HAVING TO MAINTAIN THAT, ALTHOUGH IT MAY LOOK NICE, IS A SIGNIFICANT COST THAT DOESN'T PROMOTE OUR BUSINESS, UH, NO MATTER WHO'S WALKING UP. SO, YOU KNOW, THAT, THAT, THAT GIVES US PAUSE IN, IN SIGNING UP FOR THAT. AGAIN, NOT KNOWING THE SCOPE, LIKE IT'S, IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO FORECAST THE COST OF THIS TOTAL RENOVATION BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW WHAT WE'RE ALLOWED TO DO YET. SO REGARDLESS, ONCE, ONCE WE ARE APPROVED THROUGH THIS, WE, WE WANNA START NEXT DAY. WE'RE, WE'RE IN THAT MUCH OF A HURRY. SO WE'RE, WE'RE, WE'VE BEEN, WE CROWDED FOR TOO LONG. OUR, WE'RE BUILDING OUR BUSINESS IN ANTICIPATION OF THIS. SO WE ARE ANXIOUS TO GET IN THERE. UM, YOU KNOW, I, FROM, FROM LOOKING AT EVERYTHING WE'VE DONE, UM, IN MY HISTORY, I, I, YOU KNOW, THAT THAT SPEAKS FOR ITSELF. BUT IF YOU DON'T KNOW IT, YOU KNOW, OUR, OUR, OUR TASTING ROOMS ARE WELL MAINTAINED. YOU KNOW, WE, WE FOLLOW EVERY CODE AND EVERY RULE. WE, WE WANNA BE THE MODELS OF COMPLIANCE. UM, AND IN THAT WE JUST NEED TO KNOW WHAT THE RULES ARE AND WHAT WE CAN DO. SO WE, I PROMISE YOU, THIS'LL LOOK, THIS'LL LOOK AS AS GOOD AS WE'RE ALL IMAGINING. UM, BUT THERE ARE THE LIMITATIONS OF COST. SO THAT'S, THAT'S THE CONCERN, IS WHERE, WHERE DOES IT STOP? UM, AND WHAT, WHAT TRULY IS A BENEFIT, RIGHT? IS IS THIS A WALKABLE SIDEWALK? WE'RE GONNA HAVE TRAFFIC THAT ARE WALKING AND WANTING TO STOP BY. I DON'T THINK SO. SO, YOU KNOW, WE WANT TO BE REASONABLE ABOUT WHAT THIS LOCATION IS AND, AND WHAT WE CAN OFFER. I'M JUST GONNA JUMP IN FRONT OF YOU JUST A MINUTE. UM, OKAY. SO I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY ONE OF THE THINGS, THE CITY HAS A A ZONING IN PLACE, UH, YOU KNOW, AND A VISION FOR THIS DISTRICT TO, TO MAKE IT MORE WALKABLE, MIXED USE COMMERCIAL. THAT'S WHY IT'S THERE, RIGHT? SO, I KNOW IT'S SOMETIMES HARD TO IMAGINE THAT LOOKING AT IT TODAY, BUT THAT WAS THE REASON THAT THE, THE ZONING WAS PUT IN PLACE. AND, UH, SO IT'S, YOU KNOW, IT'S ON US AS THE PLAN COMMISSION DECIDE, DO WE STICK WITH THAT INTENT OR, YOU KNOW, OUR, OUR OUR GO AWAY FROM IT. SO, UM, BUT IT, IT SEEMS LIKE ONE OF THE BIGGEST EXPENSES REALLY HERE IS THE, UH, THE DRIVEWAY. I MEAN, DO YOU HAVE AN ESTIMATE OF WHAT THAT, THAT WOULD COST YOU TO PUT THAT CONCRETE DRIVEWAY IN LIKE THAT? I DON'T. AND IS, AND THAT IS A CONDITION THAT THAT CITY IS PUT ON YOU, CORRECT? CORRECT. AND CAN YOU JUST EXPLAIN THAT AGAIN, TO MEET CODE, WHAT'S THE RE REQUIREMENT THERE? THAT IT HAS TO BE CONCRETE? WELL, IT'S THE ACTUAL FIRE LANE [00:35:01] THAT HAS TO BE CONCRETE. SO ALL, ALL FIRE LANES ARE CONCRETE. UH, THIS PARKING LOT IS ASPHALT AND, AND PROBABLY CAN'T SUPPORT THE WEIGHT OF A FIRETRUCK. SO, SO WHEN WE LOOK AT EXISTING SITES, WE LOOK AT CERTAIN, A LOT OF FACTORS. ONE IS THE INTENDED USE. SECOND, DOES IT, DOES THE USE COMPLY WITH WHAT THE CODE IS ASKING FOR THE TYPES OF USES? WE ALSO LOOK AT THE APPLICANT'S INTENT. IS THIS A LONG-TERM USE? IS HE BUYING THE PROPERTY? IS THIS A TEMPORARY USE? AND WE'LL EITHER EVENTUALLY EXPAND ON THE BUILDING OR THE USE OR MOVE ELSEWHERE. SO WE TEND TO LOOK AT ALL THESE FACTORS WHEN WE START LOOKING AT THE CODE. NOW, THE CODE DOES REQUIRE US TO REVIEW ANY SITE PLAN FOR COMPLIANCE WITH THE, WITH THE DEVELOPMENT REGULATIONS, WHICH IS WHEN WE START TO IDENTIFY ELEMENTS OF THE PROPERTY THAT DON'T COMPLY WITH THE CODE, WHICH IN TURN TURNS INTO THE SPECIAL DEVELOPMENT PLAN. SO THAT'S HOW IT ALL KIND OF EVOLVES. SO WHEN I PUT TOGETHER THAT EXHIBIT THAT YOU'RE SEEING, I KNEW WHAT THE APPLICANT'S INTENT WAS. HE WAS LEASING THE PROPERTY, HE WANTED TO GET IN, AND HE WAS WILLING TO MEET US WITH REGARDS TO THE SAFETY, HEALTH, SAFETY, WELFARE ASPECTS OF THE CODE, WHICH IS THE FIRE, THE, THE, THE, UH, THE FIRE, UH, SUPPRESSION SYSTEM IN THE BUILDING. AND THAT'S THE CODE RELATED BUILDING, CODE RELATED AND THE FIRE LANE. SO WE WORKED WITH HIM ON THAT. UH, OUR FIRE DEPARTMENT MODIFIED SOME OTHER STANDARDS IN ORDER TO ALLOW THE FIRE LANE, WHICH IT'S LAID OUT, AND ACCESS OR INGRESS ONTO THE SITE FROM AN ALLEY, WHICH THEY TYPICALLY DON'T. SO WE KNEW WHAT, YOU KNOW, WE KNEW THE CIRCUMSTANCES AND THE, AND THE, UH, LIMITATIONS THAT, THAT, UH, THE APPLICANT WAS BRINGING TO THE TABLE WITH THIS SITE. THEREFORE, WHAT YOU SEE IN FRONT OF YOU WAS SOMETHING THAT I DID NOT RECOMMEND TO THEM. HE AND I SPOKE ABOUT, OKAY, IF YOU WERE TO MEET THE CODE, HOW CLOSE COULD I GET YOU? AND THAT'S WHEN I CAME UP WITH THIS CONCEPT PLAN. I SAID, I CAN GET YOU THIS CLOSE, BUT YOU'RE STILL GONNA NEED TO ASK FOR THESE, UH, MODIFICATIONS TO THE, UH, TO THE CODE OF REQUIREMENT. THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER SU. AND, AND I GUESS TO FURTHER THAT WITH, UH, MR. CHAVEZ'S COMMENTS, THAT'S WHAT LED TO THE LIST OF THE 14 ITEMS, OKAY? YES, SIR. THAT'S CORRECT. ALRIGHT. UM, ARE THERE, ARE THERE ANY REQUIREMENTS IN THE BUILDING THAT THE, UH, THE A BC REQUIRES OF A, UH, DISTILLERY AND BOTTLING OPERATION THAT, UH, WE MIGHT NOT BE THINKING OF THAT ARE GONNA BE SIGNIFICANT COST ITEMS FOR YOU? UM, THERE, THERE ARE, THERE'S CERTAINLY REQUIREMENTS, UH, FOR, FOR EVERYTHING WE DO. 'CAUSE WE, WE ACQUIRE A FEDERAL PERMIT AND A STATE PERMIT, UH, TO OPERATE, AND WE DO THOSE IN ALL OF OUR LOCATIONS. OUR, OUR CLASSIFICATION IS A MANUFACTURER. WE FALL IN THAT MANUFACTURING TIER. SO EV EVERY LICENSE, WE HAVE THREE EXISTING, THIS'LL BE A FOURTH. UM, SO WE'RE, WE'RE PRETTY FAMILIAR WITH THE PROCESS FOR THAT. SO THEY'RE, IT'S, IT'S MOSTLY STORAGE AND HANDLING RATHER THAN ANYTHING THAT I THINK THAT WOULD AFFECT THE BUILDING. UM, YEAH. I'M SORRY. I'M NOT, NOT FULLY, WELL, ONE THING THAT WOULD COME TO MIND. ARE THERE ANY PARTICULAR SECURITY REGULATIONS, UH, YOU KNOW, STRENGTH OF, UH, WINDOWS, UH, UH, NO, SIR. THAT SORT OF THING? NO, SIR. UM, YOU KNOW, THE, THE OVERLAP OF EACH UNI MUNICIPALITY KIND OF HAS THOSE COVERED. SO FROM A FEDERAL STANDPOINT, IT'S REALLY A LOT ABOUT, UM, THE TAX DOLLARS, UH, FROM A STATE POINT, IT'S MORE ABOUT KIND OF THE, THE PUBLIC SAFETY FACING ISSUES. AND THEN FROM A CITY LEVEL AND COUNTY, IT, IT OVERLAPS THOSE AS WELL. SO THERE'S REALLY NOT A, NOT A FEDERAL OR A STATE, UM, GOVERNANCE THAT, THAT LOOKS AFTER THOSE REQUIREMENTS. OKAY. AND SO YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH YOUR EXISTING LOCATIONS, HAS YOU WELL PREPARED FOR MEETING? YES, SIR. OKAY. CORRECT. THANK YOU. UM, OKAY. SO I JUST WANTED TO ASK YOU, JUST, JUST SO I UNDERSTAND, UM, STAFF, UH, MADE SOME RECOMMENDATIONS HOW THEY COULD TRY TO GET YOU PARTIALLY THERE, UH, TO SOLVE AS MANY OF THESE ISSUES THAT THE CODE'S CALLING FOR. AND WHAT WAS YOUR REACTION TO [00:40:01] THAT? WE WERE, UM, YOU KNOW, WE'RE ALWAYS LEARNING THE PROCESS FOR THESE THINGS. SO WHEN WE ENGAGED, YOU KNOW, WE'RE HAPPY TO HEAR ANY, ANY CONCERNS ARE WE WANT TO, WE WANT TO BE AS ACCOMMODATING AS POSSIBLE. SO WHEN WE ENGAGED, UH, ARCHITECT AND CIVIL ENGINEER, YOU KNOW, WE, WE DEALT WITH THINGS SOMEWHAT, ONE AT A TIME TO REALLY UNDERSTAND THE SCOPE AND WHAT'S REQUIRED, WHAT'S ALLOWED. UM, YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT, WE'RE NOT EXPERTS ON THESE, THESE FIELDS, SO IT'S TOUGH FOR US TO REALLY HAVE A, A VALID OPINION. BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, OUR GOAL IS ALWAYS TO COMPLY AS, AS MUCH AS WE CAN. UH, I THINK WE'RE, YOU KNOW, WE WENT BACK AND FORTH QUITE A BIT TO FIND WAYS TO MAKE THINGS WORK. SO, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THESE POINTS INCLUDE, YOU KNOW, PARKING, UH, THE CITY WAS VERY HELPFUL IN, IN HELPING US FIND A FIRE LANE THAT WORKED. WE WORKSHOPPED A LOT OF DIFFERENT THOUGHTS AND IDEAS AND, YOU KNOW, SOME TIME APART REALLY LED TO LIGHT BULBS TO, TO FIND THESE SOLUTIONS. UM, SOME OF THE PEOPLE THAT HELPED OUT AREN'T EVEN PRESENT TODAY, BUT WE HAD, WE HAD A LOT OF HELP FROM THE CITY IN, IN GUIDING THROUGH THIS PROCESS. SO OVERALL, YOU KNOW, WE WERE REALLY SATISFIED WITH, WITH THEIR INPUT AND, AND HELP AND DESIRE TO KIND OF PUSH THIS FORWARD. SO THAT'S HOW WE TOOK IT. I, I HOPE THAT'S HOW IT WAS. BUT, UH, THE, YOU KNOW, INITIALLY IT WAS A SURPRISE ON UNDERSTANDING THESE REQUIREMENTS WHEN IN OUR OPINION WE, WE JUST UNDERSTOOD THE ZONING, RIGHT? SO WE JUST WANTED TO BE ZONED TO FIT OUR USE. WE DIDN'T REALIZE WE'D HAVE TO PLANT TREES TO DO THAT AS WELL. SO IT WAS A LITTLE BIT OF A SURPRISE. BUT, UM, AGAIN, WE'RE, WE'RE HAPPY TO WORK WITH EVERYONE TO MAKE SURE WE GET AS CLOSE AS WE CAN. UM, AND, AND CAN YOU TELL ME AGAIN, UH, WHY YOU NEED THE, THE, THE SECOND DRIVEWAY, THE SOUTHERN DRIVEWAY? IS THAT TO BE ABLE TO GO STRAIGHT IN AND OUT OF THE OVERHEAD DOOR THAT YOU HAVE PROPOSED ON THE EAST SIDE OF THE BUILDING? IS THAT RIGHT? UH, THE SOUTHERN DRIVEWAY, IS IT ON IT TO ALLOW FOR A, UH, ONE-WAY CIRCULATION FOR, FOR VEHICLES? SO YOU'LL ENTER ON THE NORTHERN END AND THEN GO TOWARD THE BUILDING BACKGROUND AND OUT THAT END AND THOSE PARKING SPACES ARE, ARE, UH, ANGLED, BUT TO ALLOW FOR A, FOR A, UH, EASTBOUND CIRCULATION OUTSIDE. OKAY, GREAT. BUT I ASSUME IT WOULD ALSO BE TO, TO BACK UP TO THAT NEW OVERHEAD DOOR, CORRECT. IS PLANNED ON THE, THAT THAT'S CORRECT. EAST SIDE TO ALIGN WITH THAT DRIVEWAY. THAT'S RIGHT. WE TRIED TO MAXIMIZE ALL THE PARKING WE COULD, UM, TO NOT SACRIFICE ANY OF THAT TO TRY TO MAINTAIN THOSE, I GUESS NEEDED 49 SPACES, 48 SPACES. OKAY. AND, AND IS IT, I I, AGAIN, I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE I'M CLEAR HERE ON WHAT THE ELEVATIONS THE CONCEPT PLAN SHOWS. YOUR INTENT IS TO LANDSCAPE THE AREAS AS SHOWN ON THE CONCEPT PLAN ON THE NORTH SIDE OF THE NEW, UH, THE PAVED DRIVEWAY, AND IT LOOKS LIKE ALSO AT THE NORTHWEST CORNER OF THE BUILDING. CORRECT. AND WHY IS THE NORTHWEST CORNER HAVE THAT LANDSCAPED AREA? DO YOU KNOW? I THINK WE WERE, I THINK THERE WAS A PERCENT NEEDED OF THE TOTAL AREA, I BELIEVE. YEAH, THEY WERE TRYING TO MEET A, A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE OF LANDSCAPE AREA, BUT IT'S STILL SOMEWHAT SHORT. COMMISSIONER SUTHER, THERE WAS MENTION MADE THAT YOU DON'T ANTICIPATE VERY MUCH TRUCK TRAFFIC, LIKE ONE A DAY. CORRECT. WE, WE ASSUME ONE A DAY, UH, BETWEEN, UH, DELIVERY AND RECEIVING OR RECEIVING AND, AND, UH, SHIPPING. AND WHAT, WHAT SIZE TRUCKS, UH, ARE THESE BOX TRUCKS OR SEMIS OR, OR THEY, THEY VARY. SO WE WILL RECEIVE SOME GOODS IN THE 53 FOOT TRAILERS, AND THEN WE SHIP SOME IN SMALL BOX TRUCKS. UH, SO IT, IT VARIES BETWEEN THOSE TWO SIZES AND YOUR CIRCULATION PLAN ACCOMMODATES CORRECT. WE, WE LOOKED AT IT, SO WE BACK UP TO AN ALLEY. UH, SO THERE'S AN EASY WAY TO LEAVE THERE OR THROUGH THE ADJACENT PROPERTY, BUT, UM, WE, WE TRIED TO MAKE IT ACCOMMODATE FOR BOTH, BOTH RES THAT'S WHY THE FRONT DOOR MADE SENSE AS WELL TO LIMIT ANY, ANY INCREASED CAPACITY IN THE BACK. YEAH. SO THE PHOTO ON THE LEFT SHOWS THE WEST ELEVATION, AND THEN OF COURSE, THE NORTH ELEVATION IS ALSO WHERE THEY HAVE ROLL-UP DOORS, AND THAT'S PREDOMINANTLY WHERE THAT FIRE LANE, UH, WOULD BE ALONG THAT NORTH ELEVATION. OKAY. SO THERE'S NOT MUCH REQUIREMENT TO MODIFY THE BUILDING OTHER THAN THAT ONE [00:45:01] NEW DOOR ON THE, ON THE EAST ELEVATION. AND IT'S REALLY NOT FOR, FOR SHIPPING, CORRECT. AND RECEIVING. CORRECT. OKAY. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT? ANYBODY ELSE FROM YOUR TEAM LIKE TO SPEAK? I DOUBT IT. , , WE ASK OUR HARD QUESTIONS SOMETIMES. . THANK YOU FOR THE TIME. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. UH, AND, AND AGAIN, UH, THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING JUST IN CASE. I THINK I KNOW ALL OF YOU AND I THINK YOU'RE ALL WITH THE APPLICANT, BUT IF THERE IS ANYBODY ELSE THAT WOULD LIKE TO COME FORWARD AND SPEAK EITHER IN FAVOR OR AGAINST, UH, THE REQUEST. NOW'S THE TIME. ALL RIGHT. WE'RE SEEING NONE. UM, COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINO MAKE A MOTION TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. IS THAT WHERE WE'RE GOING? YEP. SECOND, I HAVE A MOTION TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AND A SECOND. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND AND THAT PASSES UNANIMOUSLY, UH, OPEN TO COMMENTS OR SUGGESTIONS FROM THE COMMISSION? I GUESS I'M, I AM, UH, UH, IN GENERAL IMPRESSED WITH THE IDEA THAT THEY WANT TO STAY IN RICHARDSON, THAT THEY, UH, UH, VALUE WHAT, UH, WHAT KIND OF ACCEPTANCE THEY'VE ALREADY HAD. AND THIS WOULD, WOULD ADD TO THAT. I, I HOPE THAT, UH, I HOPE THAT THIS CAN WORK. IT SOUNDS LIKE THEY'RE READY TO, TO MOVE AS SOON AS WE GET OURSELVES OUT OF THEIR WAY. AND, UH, SO I'M, I'M IN FAVOR OF THIS COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINO. SO WE HAVE, UM, WE, I HAVE ALWAYS THE OPTIONS WE HAVE, WE CAN APPROVE THIS BASICALLY AS IS, OR WE CAN APPROVE IT WITH SOME REQUIREMENTS OR JUST SAY, LOOK, NO, THIS IS NOT GONNA WORK. UM, AND I JUST FEEL LIKE THIS IS, I, I, I AGREE WITH KEN. I FEEL LIKE IT'S JUST KIND OF PUNITIVE BECAUSE THEY WANT TO, 'CAUSE THEY NEED THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT. UM, IT'S LIKE, OH, NOW WE HAVE TO LOOK AT EVERYTHING THAT THE PROPERTY DOES. I KIND OF FEEL LIKE THAT I, I, I UNDERSTAND THE IMPROVEMENTS. I UNDERSTAND WHY PEOPLE WANT 'EM. I UNDERSTAND WHY THE CODE IS WRITTEN THE WAY IT IS, BUT FOR A LEASE AND A SPECIAL USE PERMIT, I'M NOT SURE WE'RE GETTING ANY TRACTION BY ENFORCING 'EM. THAT THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE KIND OF I AM. UM, AND IF THE LANDLORD TURNED AROUND TOMORROW AND, YOU KNOW, LEASED IT TO A A OR LEASE THE PROPERTY TO SOMEBODY WHO HAS A, UM, BY RIGHT, NONE OF THIS WOULD HAPPEN ANYWAY. SO I'M, I'M KIND OF PRO GETTING PROPERTY USED, AND I THINK THIS IS A, A GOOD USE AND A, A REASONABLE USE. I THINK THERE COULD BE IMPROVEMENTS MADE, BUT I CAN'T, I'M NOT SURE IF WE CAN CROSS THAT BRIDGE. COMMISSIONER ROBERTS, YOUR MICROPHONE THERE, I'M SIMILARLY INCLINED. UH, I THINK IT'S, UM, YOU KNOW, UH, I GUESS MAYBE ADMIRABLE OR IT'S, UH, IT'S GOOD THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE INTERESTED IN STAYING IN RICHARDSON AND, UH, FOR ALL THE RIGHT REASONS. UM, I ALSO WOULD, UH, UM, SOME OF THE THOUGHTS THAT, UH, COMMISSIONER CONSTANTINO SHARED ABOUT, UH, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S BETTER TO JUST HAVE A USE OF THE BUILDING AND, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, THROW ALL REGULATIONS SIDE, OBVIOUSLY, BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, IF THERE'S A WAY, YOU KNOW, THE BIGGEST CONCERN I HAVE REALLY IS, UM, YOU KNOW, MODIFYING THE, UH, THE PROPOSAL OR THE PROPOSED MOTION WITH SOME OF WHAT I THINK ARE, UH, MAYBE INCONSISTENCIES IN TERMS OF THE EXHIBIT B AND C VERSUS A AND B, AND THEN WITH THE, UH, THE CONCEPT PLAN THAT SHOWED PAINT WHERE THERE'S NO SPECIFIC INTENTION TO PAINT. UM, SO MY, MY, UH, SUGGESTION, MY THOUGHT WOULD BE IS IF WE CAN, UH, WORK OUT JUST THE TECHNICAL DETAILS OF THE PROPOSAL, YOU KNOW, I'D BE INCLINED TO, UH, TO, UH, SUPPORT IT, MR. KELLER. SO, [00:50:01] UM, MY THINKING ON THIS IS, I, I CERTAINLY UNDERSTAND AND APPRECIATE THE, THE COMMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN MADE BY THE OTHER COMMISSIONERS. UM, AND I ALSO CAN'T HELP BUT THINK OF, UH, THE CASE THAT WAS BEFORE US NOT TOO MANY WEEKS AGO, UM, IN THE INTERURBAN AREA, UM, WITH THAT PROJECT AND THE QUESTIONS ABOUT THE, THE DUAL-SIDED, UH, FRONTAGE AND WHAT WAS REQUIRED THERE. UH, I BELIEVE THAT WAS A SPECIAL DEVELOPMENT PROJECT AS WELL. UM, AND I, AND I CERTAINLY THINK THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE COMMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN MADE BY THE OTHER COMMISSIONERS, UM, I, I AGREE WITH, UM, BUT ALSO LOOKING TO THE OTHER SIDE AND PLAYING DEVIL'S ADVOCATE, I, UM, WONDER, UM, WHETHER IT MAKES SENSE TO, UM, TO KIND OF PUSH THE OTHER PART OF IT ASIDE, UM, WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT THIS. BECAUSE IF IT'S ALWAYS GOING TO BE THE CASE WHERE WE SAY, OR IN MANY OF THE CASES WHERE WE SAY, UM, YOU KNOW, WE'RE GOING TO KIND OF DISREGARD THE, UM, ULTIMATE VISION FOR WHAT THIS AREA WAS INTENDED TO BECOME OR WHENEVER THAT VISION WAS CREATED, UM, I, I THINK WE KIND OF GET INTO A POSITION THAT IS A LITTLE BIT DANGEROUS IN THAT REGARD. AND I THINK THAT THERE, FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, THERE IS A, A MIDDLE GROUND HERE. UM, I DON'T THINK IT'S NECESSARILY A SITUATION WHERE, UH, THEY HAVE TO COME UP TO CODE. UM, BUT I DO THINK THAT THERE ARE SOME MINOR MODIFICATIONS THAT COULD BE MADE. UM, AND OF COURSE THAT COMES AT A COST. UM, BUT, UM, I, I GUESS I'M JUST THINKING THROUGH THAT, WEIGHING THAT AGAINST, UM, THE OTHER CONSIDERATIONS THAT SOME OF THE OTHER COMMISSIONERS HAVE MENTIONED. UM, SO I GUESS ON A WHOLE, UM, I WOULD BE INCLINED, UH, TO REQUEST THAT WE MAKE A, A MOTION THAT DOES INCORPORATE SOME OF THE MODIFICATIONS, UH, THAT HAVE BEEN SUGGESTED IN, IN THE PLAN. UM, BECAUSE AGAIN, I DO SEE THAT AS, AS A, A MIDDLE GROUND THAT I THINK IS, IS ACHIEVABLE AND, AND WOULD, UM, CREATE SOME OF THOSE AESTHETICS THAT I THINK EVERYONE WANTS TO SEE IN RICHARDSON AS A WHOLE AND, AND CERTAINLY IN THIS AREA AS WELL. UM, YEAH, I, I MEAN, I I I THINK IT'S ADMIRABLE THAT THE, UH, THE GROUP HERE WANTS TO STAY IN RICHARDSON AS WELL. I THINK THEY'VE DONE A REALLY, REALLY GOOD JOB TO, UM, COME TO A MIDDLE GROUND, LIKE YOU SAID. UM, IT'S, IT'S A LOT OF ASK FOR , YOU KNOW, FOR A LEASED PROPERTY. UM, AND I, I DON'T KNOW, I I TEND TO AGREE WITH THE STAFF RACKS AND, AND THE WAY IT'S PLANNED. THE OTHER THING I WOULD SAY TOO, TO JUMP BACK IN THERE, UM, IN, IN THINKING ABOUT THE IDEA OF THIS BEING A LEASED PROPERTY, UM, THAT'S CERTAINLY SOMETHING THAT I WAS CONSIDERING AS WE WERE, UH, HEARING THE, THE PRESENTATIONS TODAY FROM THE, THE APPLICANT AND FROM FROM STAFF, UM, AND SOME OF THE DISCUSSION FROM, UH, THE COMMISSION AS WELL. UH, BUT THIS DOESN'T, TO ME, DOESN'T SOUND LIKE, UM, A TEMPORARY SETUP, UM, WHICH I THINK IS A GREAT THING. I, I, I THINK EVERYONE WANTS, UH, LOCKWOOD TO BE HERE AND TO CONTINUE TO BE PART OF THE COMMUNITY. CLEARLY THEY'VE SHOWN, UM, THAT, UH, THEY'VE, THEY'VE REALLY CONTRIBUTED IN THAT REGARD. UM, BUT I THINK THAT ALSO SHOULD BE CONSIDERED, UH, WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT THIS. IT'S, UM, IT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE SOMETHING THAT'S GOING TO BE, UM, GOING AWAY. AND SO, UH, I THINK THAT THAT SHOULD BE TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT WHEN WE'RE MAKING A RECOMMENDATION AS WELL. COMMISSIONER SUTHER? YEAH, I THINK THAT THE, THE HISTORY OF LOCKWOOD, EVEN THOUGH IT'S NOT THAT MANY YEARS, IS PRETTY IMPRESSIVE. UH, MY IMPRESSION IS THEY'VE HAD A, A, A GOOD IMPRESSION ON THE OTHER BUSINESSES THAT HAVE BECOME THEIR NEIGHBORS. AND THE, THE, UM, THE HOPE FOR IMPROVEMENTS THAT ARE REFLECTED IN THE, THE, UH, PLAN THAT MR. CHAVEZ TOLD US, UM, ARE EXPENSIVE. BUT I THINK THAT THE, UM, THAT IF, IF THIS PROJECT AS, AS IS, UH, UH, I HATE TO USE THE WORD MENTALLY DESCRIBED RIGHT NOW, BUT [00:55:01] UH, YOU KNOW, FAIRLY FLEXIBLY DESCRIBED RIGHT NOW IS SUCCESSFUL, THAT THEIR BUSINESS OPERATIONS WILL LEAD TO SOME OF THOSE IMPROVEMENTS THAT ARE SUGGESTED WITHOUT REQUIRING THEM UNDER A, UH, UM, A PRETTY EXPENSIVE PROPOSITION OF, UH, OF BUILDING THEM RIGHT NOW, UH, BEFORE THEY CAN START GETTING SOME REVENUE FROM, FROM THIS PROJECT. SO I'M INCLINED TO, UH, UM, TRUST THEM BASED ON THEIR, ON THEIR PRIOR, UH, PERFORMANCE IN RICHARDSON. UH, SAM, WHAT, WHAT'S, UH, UH, THE RECOMMENDATIONS THAT SAN UH, STAFF MADE? WHAT, WHICH ONES IN YOUR OPINION, ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT FOR THE CHARACTER OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND THE, AND THE ZONING NOW IT'S ON, I WOULD SAY THAT, UH, ESTABLISHING OR AT LEAST IDENTIFYING THE AMENITY ZONE, UH, WHICH WOULD INCLUDE A MINIMUM OF AN EIGHT FOOT WIDE SIDEWALK THAT WOULD MATCH THE NEW SIDEWALK ON THE, UH, JASMINE CAFE SITE AND THE, UH, FIVE FOOT WIDE LANDSCAPE BUFFER, THEY WOULD PROBABLY LOSE ABOUT FOUR PARKING SPACES DOING THAT AT A MINIMUM. SO THAT WOULD AT LEAST, WOULD YOU HAVE ESTABLISH, WOULD YOU ANY, WOULD THAT THAT CREATE ANY CONFLICT ON THE, UH, MEETING THE PARKING REQUIREMENTS? NO. CORRECT. AND, AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT THE, THE OWNER OF THE PROPERTY WOULD HAVE TO BE A PART OF THE AGREEMENT THERE, ISN'T IT? BECAUSE WOULDN'T THAT REQUIRE SOME, UH, UH, NOT DONATION, BUT WHAT'S, WHAT'S THE RIGHT WORD FOR DEDICATION? DEDICATION, YEAH. THAT FUTURE DEDICATION WOULD COME AT A TIME WHEN IT, UH, WHENEVER WE, WE NEEDED TO REPL THAT PROPERTY. UH, RIGHT NOW THAT PROPERTY IS NOT PLATTED. UM, SO THE WAY THE ORDINANCE IS STRUCTURED IS THAT WE AS STAFF ARE TO IDENTIFY DEFICIENCIES IN THE CODE, UH, WITH REGARDS TO RIGHT OF WAY. WE NEED TO AT LEAST SHOW THAT ON THE CONCEPT PLAN. SO AT A FUTURE DATE, WHEN THAT PROPERTY GETS REPLANTED, WE CAN GO BACK TO THAT ZONING EXHIBIT AND SHOW THAT THE INTENT WAS TO DE WAS FOR THE DEDICATION RIGHT OF WAY. WE HAD DEDICATION RIGHT OF WAY FOR THE PROPERTY OF THE SOUTH, WHICH IS JASMINE CAFE. SO THEY SHOWED THAT ON THEIR ZONING CONCEPT PLAN WHEN THEY CAME IN FOR DEVELOPMENT PLAN, REVIEW PROCESS. FIRST THING WE DO, OF COURSE, IS CHECK THE SPECIAL PERMIT REQUIREMENT THAT SHOWS THE DEDICATION RIGHT OF WAY THAT GETS FORWARDED ON TO THE PLAT. SO AT THAT POINT, THAT DEDICATION RIGHT OF WAY, UH, BECOMES EFFECTIVE. BUT, BUT IT ALSO ESTABLISHES, IT GIVES US AS STAFF IN THE CITY THE ABILITY TO DETERMINE WHAT GETS DEVELOPED IN THAT AMENITY AREA BECAUSE OF THE STREET RIGHT OF WAY SECTION FOR SOUTH SHERMAN. SO WE IN TURN WOULDN'T TEAR UP WHAT THE CURB AT THIS POINT UNTIL WE HAVE ENOUGH PROPERTY ACCUMULATED ALONG SHERMAN STREET IN ORDER TO MAKE THAT COST EFFECTIVE FOR THE CITY, UH, TO REDEVELOP, REDESIGN, RECONSTRUCT SHERMAN STREET. BUT WE WOULD AT LEAST WANT TO HAVE THAT EIGHT FOOT WIDE SIDEWALK AND THAT LANDSCAPE BUFFER BECAUSE THAT ESTABLISHES THE, THE, THE BOUNDARY OF ANY FUTURE DEVELOPMENT IN, YOU KNOW, IN THE FUTURE. SO DO WE NEED TO INCLUDE ANY WORDING TO THAT IN A RECOMMENDATION TO COUNCIL? IT MAY BE, IT'S NOT PART OF THE CONCEPT PLAN RIGHT NOW. NO, NO. IT'S DEFINITELY NOT PART OF THE CONCEPT PLAN. SO THAT WAS, I THINK YOU'D HAVE TO ADD THAT RIGHT TO THE CONDITIONS. 'CAUSE IT'S NOT REFLECTED IN THE CONCEPT PLAN OR THE ELEVATION PLAN TODAY. RIGHT. SO I WOULD SUGGEST THAT IF YOU DECIDE TO GO IN THAT DIRECTION, THAT YOU AT LEAST MAKE A MOTION THAT WOULD INCLUDE, UH, THAT THE, UH, APPLICANT DEVELOPER SHALL PROVIDE THE AMENITY ZONE AND THE REQUIRED FIVE FOOT WIDE LANDSCAPE BUFFER ALONG SHERMAN STREET. AND THAT WOULD CAPTURE THAT, THAT WOULD LEAVE THE, BUT IT'S THE AMENITY ZONE, THE SIDEWALK AND THE LANDSCAPE BUFFERS. CORRECT. THREE THINGS. CORRECT. YEAH. RIGHT, RIGHT. YEAH. SO THAT'S, THAT'S, WELL, THE SIDEWALK'S IN THE AMENITY ZONE. OH, I'M SORRY. YEAH. OKAY. YEAH. WOULD IT BE APPROPRIATE TO GET SOME COMMENT FROM THE APPLICANT? I, I THINK, I THINK I HAVE AN IDEA THAT MIGHT KINDA SPLIT THE BABY HERE. UM, CHAIRMAN, IF I MAY. YES, [01:00:01] GO AHEAD. UH, NOW SAM, CAN WE PUT A TIME LIMIT ON THIS? YES, YOU CAN. OKAY. AND THEN WOULD THEY HAVE TO REAPPLY FOR A SPECIAL USE PERMIT? IT DEPENDS ON WHAT SORT OF TIME LIMIT AND WHAT THE TIME LIMIT IS FOR. IS IT FOR THE SPECIAL PERMIT OR IS IT TO PROVIDE THOSE ELEMENTS? I THINK, I THINK I WOULD PUT A TIME LIMIT FOR THE SPECIAL PERMIT SO THAT THEY HAVE TO REAPPLY. AND AT THAT TIME, LET'S TAKE SOME TIME, EIGHT YEARS, 10 YEARS, RIGHT? FROM, FROM OCCUPANCY DATE. WELL, AT THAT TIME THEY COULD SAY, WE'VE BEEN DOING THIS FOR EIGHT YEARS, IT'S GOING GREAT. MEANWHILE, THE NEIGHBOR, THE SHERMAN STREET HAS GROWN AND DEVELOPED. RIGHT. YOU KNOW, OTHER, OTHER ONES HAVE STARTED TO MEET THESE REQUIREMENTS OF THE, OF THE RIGHT OF WAY, OF THE SIDEWALK, OF THE RADI, HAVE ALL THESE THINGS. AND AT THAT POINT YOU CAN SAY, LOOK, YOU, YOU WERE FRAGILE WHEN YOU STARTED THIS, BUT NOW YOU'RE AT A POINT WHERE, OKAY, IT'S, IT'S EITHER TIME TO KIND OF COMMIT, YOU KNOW, AT THAT TIME THEY MIGHT OWN THE PROPERTY, WHO KNOWS WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN OR KIND OF FIND ANOTHER PIECE OF PROPERTY. UM, AT THAT TIME, THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT AND THE SUBSEQUENT CHANGES THAT ARE NECESSARY COULD KIND OF BE ADDRESSED MORE, MORE HOLISTICALLY. AND YOU'RE GIVING THEM A CHANCE TO MAKE THIS WORK BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THREE TO FIVE YEARS FROM NOW THEY, THEY HAVE, YOU KNOW, 15 OR 25 EMPLOYEES THERE. I THINK THE COST OF ALL THIS IS GONNA BE MUCH EASIER TO MANAGE THAN STARTING AT SCRATCH WHERE THEY ARE NOW. THAT'S A POSSIBILITY. UH, I DOES THAT, I MEAN, DOES THAT SOUND LIKE A REASONABLE PATH OR AM I JUST IT DOES TO ME, BUT I DON'T HAVE ANY MONEY INVESTED. I THINK WE MIGHT WANNA GET A, WE MIGHT WANNA GET A COMMENT FROM THE APPLE. WELL THAT CERTAINLY THAT THAT SOUNDS LIKE A GOOD IDEA. . SO YOU'RE THINKING LIKE A TIERED APPROACH. NO, JUST THIS IS GOOD UNTIL 10 YEARS FROM OCCUPANCY DATE. AND THEN AT THAT TIME YOU HAVE TO APPLY FOR NOTICE OF SPECIAL USE PERMIT, YOU KNOW, AND THAT, AND YOU HAVE TO DEAL WITH THOSE ISSUES. DOES THEY COME OUT, IF I COULD JUST ASK YOU A QUESTION, I MEAN, IS THAT IN AN ATTEMPT TO GET SOME OF THE OTHER, UH, SITE MODIFICATIONS COMPLETED? IS THAT, IS THAT THE PURPOSE OF YOUR TIME LIMIT? YES. YEAH. YEAH. SO YOU COULD REEVALUATE IT AT THAT TIME. ADDITIONALLY, ADDITIONALLY, IT PUTS THEM IN A POSITION WHERE, YOU KNOW, FIVE OR EIGHT YEARS FROM NOW, THEY MIGHT START LOOKING AT ANOTHER PIECE OF PROPERTY AND SAY, YOU KNOW WHAT? THERE'S ANOTHER PIECE OF PROPERTY IN RICHARDSON THAT'S BETTER FOR US AND MAYBE NOT AS ONEROUS, OR, YOU KNOW, SOME, SOMETHING CHANGES. IT ALSO GIVES A CHANCE FOR THE WHOLE NEIGHBORHOOD TO DEVELOP. 'CAUSE IF FOR SOME REASON, COMPREHENSIVE PLAN OR SOMETHING ELSE HAPPENS, AND THIS ISN'T PUSHED THE WAY WE THINK IT'S GONNA PUSH, WELL, THAT GIVES THEM KIND OF, AS OPPOSED TO MAKING THEM SPEND IT THE MONEY NOW, WHICH THEY CAN'T. 'CAUSE THEY'RE IN A POSITION WHERE THEY DON'T THINK THEY CAN. AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN IT'S LIKE, WELL, MAYBE THE NEIGHBORHOOD DOESN'T DEVELOP THE WAY WE THINK. IT KIND OF GIVES 'EM A, GIVES 'EM SOME OPTIONS. AND, AND PERSONALLY, IF I'M A BUSINESS OWNER, I THINK YOU NEED TO KNOW I'VE GOT THE RIGHT TO STAY HERE AS LONG AS, YOU KNOW, IF I'M GONNA MAKE THIS INVESTMENT INTO A DRIVEWAY, A SPRINKLER SYSTEM. YEAH. A BOTTLING, UH, YOU KNOW, ALL THESE IMPROVEMENTS. YOU KNOW, I WANNA KNOW THAT I CAN STAY FOR A LONG TIME AND NOT KNOW THAT IT'S GONNA RUN OUT IN TWO YEARS, THREE YEARS, EIGHT YEARS OR WHATEVER. WELL, 10 YEARS. 10 YEARS ISN'T TRIVIAL. I MEAN, UH, MY MY OPINION, IT'S NOT THE USE THAT'S AN ISSUE HERE. I MEAN, 'CAUSE WE, LET'S ASK THE APPLICANT, WE, WE, WE, UH, YOU KNOW, 'CAUSE I, I DO RESPECT LOCKWOOD. I THINK IT'S GREAT WHAT THEY'VE DONE FOR THE CITY. UM, I, I WANNA SEE THEM EXPAND AND GROW IN RICHARDSON. UH, I KNOW THEY'VE HAD A TOUGH TIME FINDING A SITE. THIS IS CLOSE TO THEIR OPERATION. I MEAN, LOOK, THIS, THIS PROPERTY'S NOT IN GREAT CONDITION TODAY AT ALL. UM, YOU KNOW, I HAVE A LOT OF FAITH IN WHAT YOU WOULD DO, UH, TO IT. I, UH, WE'VE SEEN WHAT YOU'VE DONE WITH YOUR OTHER PLACE. UM, AND SO I, I DON'T, I DON'T LIKE THE IDEA NECESSARILY OF A, UH, OF A TIME LIMIT. UM, BECAUSE IT'S HARD FOR US TO JUDGE. YOU KNOW WHAT, I, I DON'T, I DON'T LIKE NEGOTIATING. I'D RATHER JUST SAY, HERE'S, HERE'S WHAT WE'RE COMFORTABLE APPROVING OR RECOMMENDING TO THE COUNCIL. YOU KNOW, WELL, THE, THE, AS FAR AS OBVIOUSLY EVERYTHING'S A RECOMMENDATION FROM US. UM, BUT JUST THE, JUST TO CONTINUE MY THOUGHTS, I JUST, YOU KNOW, I DO THINK WHAT WE, YOU KNOW, WE, WE DID HAVE THIS CASE AS COMMISSIONER KELLER POINTED OUT ON THE URBAN INNER URBAN DISTRICT, WHERE THIS COMMISSION CAME DOWN FAIRLY HARD ON THE APPLICANT FOR NOT MEETING THE INTENT OF THE DISTRICT, WHICH WAS TO BE WALKABLE, MAKE IT LOOK LIKE A STREET FRONTAGE, LANDSCAPING SCREENING, UH, PARKING, ON AND ON AND ON. UH, YOU KNOW, THIS COMMISSION WAS FAIRLY HARD ON THAT APPLICANT, UM, WHO WAS A LONG TIME RICHARDSON RESIDENT HIMSELF, HAD DONE [01:05:01] A LOT FOR THE CITY, UM, EXISTING BUSINESS. UH, YET, YOU KNOW, UM, BECAUSE OF THE INTERURBAN DISTRICT THERE, THERE WAS A STRONG DESIRE TO TRY TO MAINTAIN SOME, YOU KNOW, SOME INTENT THERE. SO I DO THINK WE, YOU KNOW, WE START MAKING DANGEROUS PRECEDENTS WHEN WE START MAKING EXCEPTIONS. AND I MEAN, LOCKWOOD'S A GREAT COMPANY TO MAKE AN EXCEPTION FOR . THEY'RE ONE OF THE BEST. BUT I, I DO THINK, UH, YOU KNOW, WHERE DO WE DRAW THE LINE? AND I, UM, YOU KNOW, SO THIS IS A LITTLE UNFORTUNATE FOR THEM, THAT BECAUSE OF THIS, THE USE IS DRIVING THIS, THIS REPURPOSING OF THE USE, UH, THAT THIS, THESE, UH, REQUIREMENTS ARE BEING CALLED INTO QUESTION. UM, THEY'VE, YOU KNOW, STAFFS TRIED TO WORK WITH THEM TO GET AS MUCH AS THEY CAN. UM, THE DRIVEWAYS TO ME IS CERTAINLY AT A VERY EXPENSIVE COST RIGHT THERE. AND, UH, THE FIRE SPRINKLER, THOSE ARE, THOSE ARE EXPENSIVE. SO I DON'T KNOW, AGAIN, HOW MUCH FARTHER YOU GO. I, I, YOU KNOW, I WOULD'VE LIKED TO HAVE SEEN A LITTLE BIT MORE, UM, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, CONVICTION ON THE PART OF THE APPLICANT THAT WE, THEY WERE GONNA DO THE PAINTING AND THEY WERE GONNA DO WHAT THEY COULD. I, I, I THINK IT'S STILL A LITTLE UP IN THE AIR. SO I, I THINK, I THINK IT'S UP TO US AS A COMMISSION TO SAY, THIS IS WHAT WE WOULD RECOMMEND TO THE COUNCIL. COUNCIL CAN DECIDE TO ACCEPT IT OR NOT ACCEPT IT AND OR DO SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. BUT, UH, I, I THINK THAT THOSE KIND OF FACTORS NEED TO BE, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE, AS A COMMISSION, WE'RE, WE'RE CHARGED WITH REPRESENTING THE RESIDENTS, THE CITY, THE VOTERS WE'RE, YOU KNOW, NO ONE ELSE IS HERE TO SHOW UP, TO SPEAK IN FAVOR OF WHAT, WHAT'S IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE CITY. BUT WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THE ZONING, WHAT THE INTENT WAS, AND, UH, 'CAUSE THAT WAS PASSED, AND THAT IS IN PLACE, AND THAT'S, AND THERE ARE A LOT OF SET EXCEPTIONS, UH, THAT ARE BEING ASKED RIGHT, RIGHT NOW. SO I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE WE'RE, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER RECOMMENDATION IT IS WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, STRONG CONVICTION IN, IN IT. AND I, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, I, I DON'T LIKE TYING PEOPLE'S HANDS TO THIS TIME LIMIT OR THAT IT'S JUST LIKE, THIS IS HOW WE WOULD RECOMMEND APPROVING IT OR NOT APPROVING IT. YEAH. I THINK I, I TOTALLY, I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND YOUR PERSPECTIVE, BUT HERE'S THE OPPOSITE SCENARIO WHERE, UM, IT, IT WORKS LOCKWOOD'S THERE FOR 40 YEARS AND NEVER DOES ANY OF THIS BECAUSE WE DIDN'T, WE DIDN'T PUSH THEM TO DO ANY RIGHT. AND THAT'S LIKE, I DON'T LIKE THE FACT THAT IT COULD BE FOREVER. I, THAT'S WHY I WANNA SAY, LOOK, I UNDERSTAND, YOU KNOW, PUT 10 YEARS INTO IT AND THEN FIGURE OUT WHAT YOU WANNA DO TO MAKE IT WORK, I THINK IS, IS, IS KIND OF FROM A BALANCING ACT, UH, A REASONABLE PATH. UM, AND HONESTLY, ALL THESE PLANS, ALL THESE DESIRES, UM, MIKE'S TALKED ABOUT SOME, UM, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S THE DIFFERENT SCENARIOS. LIKE, LIKE SAM TALKED ABOUT. AND, AND MIKE IS VERY CLEAR TO SAY, WELL, THIS IS KIND OF THEIR DESIRE, BUT THEIR DESIRE WASN'T TO BE FULFILLED YESTERDAY. EVERY PERSON WHO MADE THESE PLANS HAD INTIMATE INVOLVEMENT WITH CITY GOVERNMENT AND KNOWS THESE THINGS ARE NOT INSTANTANEOUS. UH, SO, YOU KNOW, THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS, YEAH, WE COULD TRY TO FORCE 'EM TO DO ALL THIS NOW, BUT I'M NOT SURE THERE'S ANY VALUE THERE IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, THEY TURN AROUND TOMORROW AND JUST SELL IT TO SOMEBODY WHO'S GONNA USE IT FOR AN INDUSTRIAL USE. AND NONE OF THIS GETS DONE ANYWAY. AND THERE'S NO KIND OF THOUGHT THAT IT WOULD, WELL, WE HAVE TO MAKE THOSE TOUGH DECISIONS ON EVERY ZONING CASE THAT COMES BEFORE US. AND, AND, AND GENERALLY YOU DO HAVE TO THINK OF, IT COULD BE FOREVER WHEN, WHEN IT LEAVES US. THAT'S OUR RECOMMENDATION. UM, SO I RARELY HAVE, I, I CAN'T THINK OF WHEN I'VE SEEN A, A TIME LIMIT THAT WE'VE PUT ON THAT A ZONING OR A SPECIAL USE CASE IS GONNA EXPIRE IN A, IN A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF TIME. BUT WE DID, IF THIS MIGHT HAVE BEEN JUST BEFORE YOU JOINED, SO THERE WERE SOME, UH, SPECIAL OR NOT SPECIAL USES, UM, APPROVED USES, UH, THAT WERE NOT ALLOWED IN PROPERTIES. IT'S, IT'S THE SAME, IT'S THE INTERURBAN AREA. IT WAS THAT AREA JUST SOUTH OF MAIN STREET, RIGHT. AND THERE WAS THIS WHOLE BIG PROBLEM WHERE ANYTIME SOMEBODY WANTED TO PUT A, UM, YOU KNOW, AN AUTO REPAIR OR AN OIL PLACE IN, THEY HAD TO COME BACK TO US BECAUSE BASICALLY THE PD SAID, YOU CAN'T DO THIS. SO WHAT WE DID WAS WE SAID, LOOK, THIS IS THE WAY WE WANT TO GO, BUT IT'S NOT HAPPENING RIGHT NOW. SO WE'LL GIVE YOU 10 YEARS. AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE DID. AND 10 YEARS IS ABOUT HALF THE TIME IT TAKES TO FINANCE ONE OF THOSE BUILDINGS. AND MEANWHILE, THESE OWNERS HAVE TO START TO FIGURE OUT WAYS TO MAKE THIS BETTER. UM, [01:10:01] I'M NOT SURE IF YOU WERE INVOLVED WITH THAT OR NOT. SO, SO, AND THAT WAS SOMETHING WE DID AS A, IT WAS KIND OF A, A CLASS OF THEM. WE BASICALLY SAID, LOOK, THIS ISN'T HAPPENING AS QUICK AS WE'D LIKE, SO WE'LL GIVE YOU 10 MORE YEARS. AND THAT, THAT'S, THAT GOT APPROVED BY COUNCIL AND YEAH, WE DID THAT IN 2020. YEAH. WHERE WE CREATED A DIFFERENT CLASS OF NON-CONFORMING USE. YEAH. AND IT WAS A SPECIFIC SET OF BUILDINGS, RIGHT? SO WE CALLED IT A QUALIFYING NON-CONFORMING USE, MEANING THAT A USE THAT WAS PREVIOUSLY ALLOWED IN ON THAT PROPERTY PRIOR TO ZONING WAS ALLOWED TO REOCCUPY THE BUILDING, BUT ONLY FOR A PERIOD OF 10 YEARS, WHICH, WHICH EXPIRES IN 2031. AT THAT POINT, THAT USE WOULD NOW ALSO BECOME NON, NON-CONFORMING AND WOULD, AND WOULD, AND WOULD THEREFORE, UH, MEET OR HAVE TO MEET THE SIX MONTH KIND OF WINDOW WHERE IF IT'S NOT IN USE, IF IT'S BEEN ABANDONED, IT LOSES IT'S NON-CONFORMING RIGHTS. AND THERE WAS A SUNSET CLAUSE IN THERE, BUT WE IDENTIFIED, I THINK FOUR OR, UH, I WANNA SAY ABOUT SIX OR SEVEN USES THAT WE WOULD, UH, THAT WE WOULD ALLOW AS QUALIFYING NON-CONFORMING USES. BUT WE DID SET A TIME LIMIT. NOW, THERE ARE INSTANCES WHEN COUNSEL DOES AND HAS THE ABILITY TO, UH, IMPOSE A, A, A TIME LIMIT ON A USE. AND IT'S TYPICALLY NOT, IT, IT'S TYPICALLY NOT, NOT IMPOSE IN ORDER TO, TO, TO, UH, GET THE PROPERTY OR THE BUSINESS TO VACATE. IT'S MORE OF A TIMEFRAME TO ALLOW THAT BUSINESS TO, TO KIND OF GROW TO SEE WHAT IMPACTS IT MAY HAVE ON THE NEIGHBORHOOD. UH, AND TYPICALLY WHAT HAPPENS IS THAT THE APPLICANT COMES IN, APPLIES FOR A NEW SPECIAL PERMIT, AND WE GO THROUGH THE SAME PROCESS. UH, BUT IT, THEY'RE TYPICALLY, YOU KNOW, TIMELINES ARE TYPICALLY APPLIED TO ALLOW THOSE BUSINESSES TO GROW TO SEE WHAT THE IMPACT IS, SEE IF THERE'S SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO BE TWEAKED AND THAT SPECIAL PERMIT, UH, APPROVAL. BUT IT, BUT IT'S NORMALLY NOT, YOU KNOW, AT THE END OF FIVE OR 10 YEARS YOU GO AWAY, IT'S TYPICALLY, LET'S REASSESS WHAT WE'VE DONE. WELL, AGAIN, I, I THINK THAT MOST OF THE REQUIREMENTS OF THIS DISTRICT, UM, YOU KNOW, IN MY MIND, AGAIN, MATTER MORE WHEN YOU'RE THINKING OF REDEVELOPING THE PROPERTY. AND, AND WHAT I THINK OF REDEVELOPMENT IS LIKE TEARING THE BUILDING DOWN AND, YOU KNOW, BUILDING NEW, AND THEN YOU CAN SAY, WE'RE GONNA MEET ALL THESE REQUIREMENTS, THEN YOU STICK TO IT. BUT WHEN IT'S JUST ANOTHER BUSINESS COMING INTO THE SAME BUILDING, THAT'S WHEN I THINK YOU CAN MAKE THOSE EXCEPTIONS. AND YOU, YOU KNOW, IT'S JUSTIFIED IN MAKING THOSE EXCEPTIONS. 'CAUSE THERE REALLY IS NOT THAT MAJOR OF A MODIFICATION TO THE BUILDING. WE'RE TALKING A AN OVERHEAD DOOR, REALLY WHEN YOU GET DOWN TO IT . UM, AND SO YOU CAN'T FORCE 'EM TO MOVE THE BUILD RE YOU KNOW, EXTEND THE BUILDING TO THE BUILD TWO ZONE OR IN THE SETBACK, OR NECESSARILY HAVE ALL THIS ARTICULATION IN THE WALLS AND UM, UH, YOU KNOW, OPEN, YOU KNOW, NECESSARILY OPEN SPACE. AND LIKE WE, ONE OF Y'ALL SAID, LIKE, LIKE IF THIS WAS A A A A USE BY RIGHT WITHOUT A SPECIAL PERMIT, A LOT OF THIS WOULDN'T EVEN BE COMING BEFORE US. SO UNLESS THEY MADE SITE SITE CHANGES AND THEN THEY WOULD, THEY WOULD FALL BACK IN, IN OUR LAB SITE CHANGES. YEAH. RIGHT. SO THAT'S, THAT'S WHERE WE'RE, YOU KNOW, THAT'S KIND OF THE DILEMMA WE FACE IS IN MY MIND IS, IS LIKE, UH, OKAY, IT'S NOT A REDEVELOPMENT IN MY, IN THE WAY I LOOK AT IT. IT'S, IT IS A REUSE. AND LIKE I SAY, I HAVE NO ISSUE WITH THE, THE SPECIAL PERMIT AND THE USE. I THINK THAT'S GOOD FOR THIS NEIGHBORHOOD. I THINK IT DOES FIT IN THE CHARACTER OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD. AND I DO THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, LOCKWOOD'S THE KIND OF COMPANY WE WANNA RE RETAIN IN RICHARDSON. SO, UM, AGAIN, I THINK, UM, CAN WE ASK THE APPLICANT WHAT THEY THINK ABOUT, UH, A TIME LIMIT OF SOME SORT? LEMME ASK A DIFFERENT QUESTION IF I CAN SURE. JUMP IN HERE FOR A SECOND. SURE. TELL ME MY, IF THERE IS A, IF THERE IS, IF APPLICANT, UH, [01:15:01] IN, YOU KNOW, UNDER LEASE FOR SOME PERIOD OF TIME, 10 YEARS, EVERYTHING'S GREAT, YOU KNOW, WORKS OUT REALLY WELL, AND THEY DECIDE TO SUBSTANTIALLY REDEVELOP THE BUILDING, DOES THAT COME BACK TO CBC? IF IT'S THE SAME USE, IT PROBABLY WOULD BECAUSE THAT SPECIAL PERMIT IS LIMITED TO THAT CONCEPT PLAN. SO IF THAT PLAN HAS TO CHANGE, BECAUSE LET'S SAY THEY NEED ADDITIONAL SQUARE FOOTAGE, THEN THEY HAVE TO AMEND THAT THE EXISTING SPECIAL PERMIT THAT WAS GRANTED TO THEM. SO IT WILL COME BACK. THANK YOU. SORRY JOE. NO PROBLEM. I'M, I'M STILL, UH, CAN WE ASK, DO YOU HAVE A QUESTION FOR THE APPLICANT? YES. YOU WOULD LIKE TO ASK? WOULD YOU LIKE TO COME BACK UP? SORRY, . SORRY. SO THE QUESTION IS, WHAT WE'VE BEEN KIND OF KICKING AROUND HERE, MAYBE IT'S PLAN C OR SOMETHING, UM, I IS THE IDEA OF A TIME LIMIT, UM, COMPATIBLE WITH YOUR BUSINESS VISION AND THE, AND THE OPPORTUNITY IN FRONT OF YOU. THANK YOU FOR THE QUESTION. AND I, I APPRECIATE THE PERSPECTIVE BECAUSE I, I CAN HEAR WHAT YOU GUYS ARE CONCERNED ABOUT AND WE OBVIOUSLY, WE, WE WOULD LOVE TO REMEDY THAT. SO MY CONCERN ABOUT A TIME LIMIT IS, IS THAT WE'RE, OUR INTEREST IS A ZONING. SO IF WE RUN THE RISK OF OUR, OF OUR TIME RUNNING OUT AFTER AN INVESTMENT IN A RELOCATION LIKE THIS, YOU KNOW, THAT WOULD OPEN THE DOOR TO US LOOKING ELSEWHERE, RIGHT? SO, YOU KNOW, IF, IF OUR EXPANSION IS NEEDED BY THEN, YOU KNOW, AND WE KNOW THAT THERE'S A CLOCK COMING THAT WE DON'T KNOW IF OUR FUTURE IS CERTAIN AS A RESPONSIBLE BUSINESS OWNER, WE WOULD EXPLORE MORE OPTIONS, RIGHT? SO I WOULD HATE TO HAVE THAT TEMPTATION IS THAT WE, WE WOULD LOVE TO LIVE IN THIS SPACE LONG TERM. UM, WE WANT TO MAKE IT WHAT YOU GUYS WANT IT TO BE, RIGHT? SO, UM, THE, THE VISION OF WALKABLE SPACE AND THINGS LIKE THAT, I THINK, I THINK WE'RE CERTAINLY OPEN TO IN TIME. I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S AN AGREEMENT WE CAN MAKE TO ADDRESS IT LATER, BUT HAVING OUR, OUR ZONING EXPIRE, THAT WOULD JEOPARDIZE OUR LICENSE. I'M NOT EVEN SURE WE CAN LICENSE IT WITH A, WITH A END DATE ON A, ON A PERMIT. SO THAT'S, THAT'S MY CONCERN IS THAT IF, IF IT'S, IF FROM A ZONING PERSPECTIVE WHERE WE CAN'T OPERATE ANY FURTHER, THAT WOULD GIVE ME GREAT PAUSE TO PROCEED. UM, IF IT'S JUST UPDATING THE LANDSCAPE AND THE FACADE OF THE BUILDING, LIKE, I MEAN, THAT'S FULLY OUR INTENTION ANYWAY. WE, WE WANT IT TO LOOK LIKE OUR, OUR OTHER BUSINESSES. LIKE I, I, I MENTIONED, AND I, I APOLOGIZE IF I WASN'T CLEAR. YOU KNOW, WHEN WE, WHEN WE DID THIS PROCESS, THERE'S A LOT, AS YOU CAN TELL, A LOT OF DECISIONS TO BE MADE. AND OUR, OUR GOAL IS TO PUSH FORWARD AND PUSH THROUGH. SO I DON'T RECALL A MOMENT WHERE WE PUT OUR FOOT DOWN AND SAID WE DIDN'T WANT TO DO ANY OF THIS. EE EVERYTHING WAS IN THE SPIRIT OF FINDING A SOLUTION. UM, I, I HONESTLY CAN'T THINK OF ONE THING THAT WE PUSHED BACK ON THAT WAS ON OUR BEHALF TO MAKE THIS WORK. THERE WAS A LOT OF, LOT OF WORK TO REWORK THINGS. THE EXISTING FIRE LANES ARE VERY DIFFERENT THAN WHAT'S ON HERE. AND THAT ONCE YOU CHANGE THAT, YOU JEOPARDIZE PARKING, YOU JEOPARDIZE THE LANDSCAPE, YOU JEOPARDIZE THE WALKABILITY, A LOT OF THOSE THINGS CHANGE. ALSO IN THIS PROPOSAL, IT TALKS ABOUT TAKING SEVEN FEET OF THE PROPERTY AWAY FROM THE LANDOWNER. AND I, I CAN'T SPEAK TO THAT, RIGHT? THAT'S, THAT'S NOT MY, IT'S NOT MY PARKING LOT TO GIVE. SO, YOU KNOW, IF THERE'S A CONCESSION WE CAN MAKE TO GUARANTEE THAT WE MAKE THE FACADE OF THIS BUILDING FAR IMPROVED, I I CAN GUARANTEE THAT FOR SURE. UM, YOU KNOW, AND, AND ON PAPER YOU'RE RIGHT, IT LOOKS LIKE WE'RE JUST ADDING A A, A BAY DOOR OUT FRONT, AND IT'S GONNA LOOK LIKE EVERY OTHER WAREHOUSE BUILDING THAT, THAT IS CERTAINLY NOT OUR ATTENTION. LIKE I, I MENTIONED, YOU KNOW, THERE'S SOME, THERE'S SOME REALLY UNIQUE THINGS HERE THAT, THAT KIND OF HAVE THE HISTORY OF THE BUILDING AND BEING THAT THUNDERBIRD ROLLER RINK, THE SIGN OUT FRONT HAS THE, THE BIRD OUTLINE, UH, IT'S ON THE BUILDING AS WELL. WE WERE REALLY WANNA PROMOTE THOSE KIND OF RETRO IMAGES FROM THAT AGE. UM, INSIDE DECOR, WE'LL KIND OF FOLLOW THAT AS WELL. UM, YOU KNOW, THIS'LL BE FAR FROM A WAREHOUSE. GRANTED, IT IS A PRODUCTION FACILITY, BUT, YOU KNOW, I THINK, I THINK, UM, TO SEE OUR CURRENT PRODUCTION FACILITY IN SUCH A SMALL SPACE AND BEING OVERCROWDED, IT'S STILL VERY ORGANIZED AND, UM, AND WELL DONE. AND THIS'LL BE IN THE SAME SPIRIT. SO IT'S TOUGH TO SEE THAT IN THESE PLANS BECAUSE REALLY THE GOAL WAS TO GET APPROVAL. SO WE WANTED TO FIND THE BEST WAY WE CAN DO IT ALSO WHILE MANAGING INVESTMENT. UM, SO I, I HOPE THAT HELPS. IF NOT, I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER MORE QUESTIONS. THANK YOU. CERTAINLY [01:20:02] COMMISSIONER ROBERTS, I THINK IT'S, UH, I THINK WE CAN STAY, UM, TRUE TO THE MISSION OF THE CPC AND, UH, TREAT THIS AS REALLY WHAT IT IS AS A MOVE. YOU KNOW, IT'S ONE BUSINESS MOVING INTO A FACILITY HERE. IT'S NOT A REDEVELOPMENT. AND, UM, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE IT'S NOT A REDEVELOPMENT, SOME OF THE OTHER, UH, YOU KNOW, CONSTRAINTS AND THINGS, UM, MAY NOT NECESSARILY APPLY. THAT'S MY COMMENT. GIVING YOU A MOMENT TO THINK BEFORE I ASK FOR A MOTION. MR. SUTHER. ALRIGHT, UH, NOT SEEING ANYONE ELSE RUSH UP TO, UH, UH, OFFER A, UH, A MOTION. UM, I'M INCLINED TO, UH, UH, MOVE THAT WE RECOMMEND TO COUNSEL THAT THIS REQUEST BE GRANTED WITH THE MINOR CHANGES THAT, UH, WHERE EXHIBIT B IS CHANGED TO EXHIBIT A AND C HAS CHANGED TO, UH, B, UM, AND CONSCIOUSLY NOT, UH, REQUESTING ANY OTHER PROVISION AT THE TIME BEING, IN ESSENCE TRUSTING THE, UH, UM, THE REPRESENTATIONS THAT THE APPLICANT HAS MADE TO US. OKAY? SO MOTION TO APPROVE AS PRESENTED OTHER THAN THE LETTERING. A SECOND. OKAY. UH, WE HAVE A MOTION AND SECOND, UH, FAVOR. I'M SORRY, I DIDN'T HAVE THAT ON THE MIC. ALL THOSE IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION, RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND. ALL THOSE OPPOSED, COMMISSIONER KELLER OPPOSED, UH, PASSES. UM, GOOD LUCK. AND, UH, YEAH, IF, IF THERE'S ANYTHING YOU COULD DO, YOU KNOW, PRIOR TO GOING TO COUNSEL, I THINK TO MAYBE FIRM UP YOUR POSITION ON SOME OF THOSE, UH, THINGS YOU'RE WILLING TO DO. UM, I KNOW YOU'RE A LITTLE BIT UNDECIDED, BUT I THINK THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL. UM, I'VE CERTAINLY TALKED TO THE, UH, YOU KNOW, THE PROPERTY OWNER ABOUT THE DEDICATION OF THE RIGHT OF WAY AND, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY THAT'S, YOU HEARD FROM STAFF THAT WAS IMPORTANT TO THEM, SO THAT, THAT MIGHT, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW THAT YOU'LL NEED IT, BUT, YOU KNOW, CERTAINLY NEED TO BE PREPARED FOR IT. SO THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME TONIGHT AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR BUSINESS, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW, BUSINESS BEING HERE. WE APPRECIATE IT. ANYTHING ELSE? ALL RIGHT, WE STAND ADJOURNED. THANK YOU. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.